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Re:U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate o... by woodruffw on Saturday September 17, 2022 @02:52PM (#32880236)
If it's a natural person, then they can do it with their own time and money. This is not what we've seen in the post-CU political financing world: we've increasingly seen opaque corporate structures where unknown individuals ply unknown amounts of money (collected from the labor of people who almost certainly wouldn't approve it directly) into races.

CU does nothing to protect the free expression of individuals; it has markedly diminished the expressive power of individuals in the political sphere in favor of opaque and legally established (rather than natural) entities.

> So you are only against Citizens United as applied to big and powerful corporations, but are totally fine with it with less powerful corporations? Say, you totally support the actual plaintiff, the Citizens United organization, in its right to publish the movie that was the subject matter in the case?

I don't know if this is intentional on your part, but you're dropping a key piece of context: Citizens United (the organization) is a PAC, with extraordinarily wealthy corporate financiers. It's not some kind of scrappy outfit with a handful of unpaid undergraduate interns, and it would not exist independent of the corporate interests that use it as a more palatable front for political influence ("Koch Interests Action Campaign" just doesn't have quite the same ring to it, I think).

> Should government also have a right to restrict speech of individuals if they are rich and powerful enough?

Frankly, there should be no private financing of elections at all. But that's not realistic.

Realistically: rich and powerful people have the exact same right to engage in electoral politics as everyone else, and there is no immediately feasible way to stop them from dominating those politics via their wealth and power. What we can do is make those attempts at domination as transparent as possible. Rulings like CU directly stand in the way of electoral transparency.

Re:U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate o... by xyzzyz on Saturday September 17, 2022 @03:14PM (#32880467)
> If it's a natural person, then they can do it with their own time and money.

> (...)

> Citizens United (the organization) is a PAC, with extraordinarily wealthy corporate financiers.

So what is your complaint here, exactly? That wealthy corporate financiers can do everything that Citizens United tried to do, as long as at no point any of the funds pass through any corporation or a non-profit? Seems like you're just trying to make the speech of the wealthy corporate financiers difficult. I don't think people should lose their rights just because they are wealthy.

Re:U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate o... by woodruffw on Saturday September 17, 2022 @03:21PM (#32880542)
Nobody is talking about anybody losing any rights. To paraphase Anatole France: the law, in its majestic equality, permits the rich as well as the poor to express and petition as private individuals.

My "complaint" is about civic integrity and transparency: you are (presumably) a member of the same society as me, so you should have an intuitive (and civically gained) understanding that sunlight is the best disinfectant. Our country is better off when those who engage in our political processes, especially disproportionately, cannot hide behind corporate structures.

Re:U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate o... by rmilk on Saturday September 17, 2022 @03:55PM (#32880931)
Agreed. This is why we insist on campaign finance limits and public lists of donors. See new article just today from the UK where someone wanted to donate $300k to a US election, and did so by funneling it through a lobbying group to obfuscate the foreign source.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/no-10-chief-of-staff-in-f...

Re:U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate o... by rmilk on Saturday September 17, 2022 @03:47PM (#32880841)
The key point being made is that corporations give both an opaque knowledge of their funding and also a multiplier effect of that funding in a way that a wealthy individual cannot. You saw this immediately with astroturfing on candidates and issues all neatly hidden behind the PAC facade, with no way to discern who funded it.
Re:U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate o... by kelnos on Saturday September 17, 2022 @04:26PM (#32881250)
No, because they can't actually do everything that Citizens United tried to do.

Here's a structure that I think would be fairly unobjectionable: Citizens United works collectively to raise funds for political causes. Once funds are raised, the money -- in its entirety, minus administrative and other overhead costs -- is distributed to all the employees of Citizens United itself. That money is taxed, as it should be. Then the employees are free to voluntarily choose to contribute that money -- up to individual contribution limits -- to whatever candidates they so choose.

The same should be the case if an ordinary corporation (one that doesn't exist for political purposes) wants to donate to political causes: they should be forced to distribute the sum total of that desired contribution as salary to employees, who could then choose to make (or not make) those contributions.

Obviously there are flaws to this plan, and it needs more scrutiny and fleshing out, but I think it is much more democracy-preserving and -- critically -- transparent than just allowing corporations to act as "people" and fund political campaigns directly, or via shadowy means.

Re:U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate o... by joshuamorton on Saturday September 17, 2022 @05:49PM (#32881937)
Is CU allowed to pay people a nominal fee to be on-paper employees, whose only responsibility is to, a few times a year, sign a release form that allows CU to make a bundle of political donations on their behalf, with the fee paid out to the individual.

Or on the personal level, I can't actually tell if it's illegal for me to pay you $3000 to sign a contract saying you will donate $2600 to a particular candidate. And if it's legal for me and you do to that, why shouldn't it be legal for a corporate entity to do that at scale?

And it's certainly legal for you to hire me to handle the minutia of donating money to a political candidate.