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Re:The Problem with Intelligence by wtetzner on Thursday September 15, 2022 @09:30AM (#32851630)
Having grown up with both, I strongly disagree. You can build very strong bonds with cats, but you have to earn their trust first. Just because they don't feel that the purpose of their existence is to please their owner doesn't mean they're not intelligent.
Re:The Problem with Intelligence by jononomo on Thursday September 15, 2022 @09:49AM (#32851920)
"A team of researchers counted the number of neurons in dog and cat brains and found one had twice as many as the other."

Guess which one!

The answer is found here: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/dog-cat-b...

Re:The Problem with Intelligence by mirror_neuron on Thursday September 15, 2022 @10:33AM (#32852669)
Neuron count is strongly correlated with body size, and does not necessarily correspond to what we like to call “intelligence”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4244864

Re:The Problem with Intelligence by bpodgursky on Thursday September 15, 2022 @06:46PM (#32859430)
Ok but body size also corresponds somewhat closely with what we call intelligence within similar classes of animal.

Great apes are smarter than small apes. Big birds are generally smarter than small birds. Elephants are smarter than deer.

Re:The Problem with Intelligence by abudabi123 on Thursday September 15, 2022 @12:30PM (#32854470)
A spermwhale's brain is about the size of a basketball. An infographic for all brains and how their neurons are divided up in special domains, the ratio of brain size to body size, etc, would be interesting to see.
Re:The Problem with Intelligence by galaxyLogic on Thursday September 15, 2022 @12:52PM (#32854870)
> A spermwhale's brain is about the size of a basketball

Well said. Here's another expression I often use: Stupider than Jupiter!

Jupiter is big but not very intelligent as far as we know.

Re:The Problem with Intelligence by Damogran6 on Thursday September 15, 2022 @11:17AM (#32853327)
African Greys have a brain the size of a walnut...mine is freekin' SMART.
Re:The Problem with Intelligence by bpodgursky on Thursday September 15, 2022 @06:59PM (#32859556)
Yes, but African Greys also have among the largest brains of all birds.

You can't necessarily compare bird brains to whale brains, but within birds (or really any similar class of animal) neurons seems to directly correlate with perceived intelligence.

Re:The Problem with Intelligence by PurpleRamen on Thursday September 15, 2022 @10:12AM (#32852328)
Isn't that as pointless as comparing clock rates of different CPU-families?
Re:The Problem with Intelligence by jononomo on Thursday September 15, 2022 @10:25AM (#32852549)
No
Re:The Problem with Intelligence by PurpleRamen on Thursday September 15, 2022 @10:45AM (#32852829)
Because all brains are working the same? No difference in "architecture", strategies, neurons, biology, chemistry, whatever?
Re:The Problem with Intelligence by navjack27 on Thursday September 15, 2022 @11:08AM (#32853186)
Yeah my brain is a netburst. Not even joking. Context switches make me have to completely flush my pipeline. But once I get going on something my pipeline is pretty deep and my clock rate can get pretty high.
Re:The Problem with Intelligence by jononomo on Thursday September 15, 2022 @09:37AM (#32851739)
The inability of a cat to communicate with a human being is what makes cats unintelligent. People like to think that cats are above communicating with humans when the fact is that they're just too stupid. It's not like cats could follow instructions if they wanted to but they just don't want to -- it's that cat are dumb and they can't follow instructions.
Re:The Problem with Intelligence by belval on Thursday September 15, 2022 @10:00AM (#32852110)
> It's not like cats could follow instructions if they wanted to but they just don't want to

You can teach your cat to use the toilet, come when you call its name, roll and jump. They can even open doors which requires understanding how a door knob/rail system behaves. We had a cat that would follow us everywhere even if we went for a walk outside the house for several miles.

Additionally, cats are not nurtured like puppies are. There are considerable amounts of information and know-how from breeders on how to socialize puppies to develop their ability to follow instructions and respect their master. Kittens on the other hand are mostly raised in small cages in pet shops and treated as glorified hamsters that can jump high and purr. Going further, canines are pack animals which are naturally predisposed to work with others and understand complex hierarchies. Felines are mostly solitary and only really get in groups during mating season.

Another counter-example (unrelated to cats) are birds. Birds are incredibly intelligent, they can learn to solve puzzles, talk, and answer to their name. Yet if you ever get a budgie (or similar) you'll notice that your animal seems dumb as a rock. That's because birds require a lot of work in order to learn those tricks because they are naturally distrustful of humans. If you put ~1hr a day on training your budgie as you would with a young pup, you would see incredible improvements.

As a final note, I would concede that a cat's intellect is no match to a dog's, but using "follow instructions" as a metric to define intelligence and concluding "cat are dumb" is an oversimplification.

Re:The Problem with Intelligence by slfnflctd on Thursday September 15, 2022 @10:13AM (#32852346)
Cats will let you know if they want to be petted, brushed, for you turn on the sink so they can drink from it, or of course be fed. They will also make it clear if they are excited or if they feel threatened. They can communicate just fine when they want to.

There are animal handlers and zookeepers who have trained cats to perform complex tasks on obstacle courses repeatedly & reliably, just like dogs and other animals. I saw this first hand at a zoo myself (I think it was San Diego but I'm not positive).

On top of all this, if you have interacted with a lot of cats, it becomes obvious that there is a ton of diversity in their personalities & behavioral patterns, even between siblings. There is no point in discussing 'smarter or dumber' here, their intelligence is just different-- it's unique to their species, as with pretty much every other animal capable of being trained.

Re:The Problem with Intelligence by slfnflctd on Thursday September 15, 2022 @08:00PM (#32860152)
Forgot to mention, in a house with 10 cats where I once lived, each would respond individually & separately to their name. So they can understand verbal direction.
Re:The Problem with Intelligence by czx4f4bd on Thursday September 15, 2022 @09:53AM (#32851981)
This is just flat-out incorrect. Scientists have found cats are plenty intelligent and simply don't cooperate with testing. https://www.science.org/content/article/cats-rival-dogs-many...
Re:The Problem with Intelligence by jononomo on Thursday September 15, 2022 @10:28AM (#32852590)
Apparently dogs have been objectively measured to be twice as intelligent as cats: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/dog-cat-b...
Re:The Problem with Intelligence by zuminator on Thursday September 15, 2022 @11:01AM (#32853049)
That's not what that article says. It says that dogs have been objectively measured to have twice the number of neurons as cats. And that is speculated to mean they are roughly twice as intelligent.

With that in mind, dolphins have 2x and elephants have 3x the number of neurons as humans.

Re:The Problem with Intelligence by Lwepz on Thursday September 15, 2022 @10:43AM (#32852793)
Dogs might might be better learners and problem solvers than cats but your statement doesn't make any sense.
Re:The Problem with Intelligence by PuppyTailWags on Thursday September 15, 2022 @10:18AM (#32852424)
I think it's reasonable to go back to the original inquiry: How are we defining intelligence here? Is it reasonable to define intelligent as the ability to communicate with human beings?