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Re:European natural gas imports and storage reserves by modo_mario on Tuesday September 13, 2022 @09:45AM (#32824210)
Verbal face to face agreements that go against the explicit wish of the countries involved which you give no agency? Should a finger be pointed at the agreement regarding Ukraine giving up the USSR nukes?
Re:European natural gas imports and storage reserves by blub on Tuesday September 13, 2022 @10:39AM (#32824857)
Such agreements are based on trust and if that’s gone both parties stand to lose a lot. The kind of global challenges we will meet can only be tackled by having the US, Russia, China, India, the EU work together.

Pointing out that it was a verbal agreement is correct, but is missing the bigger point. This is not just a technical gotcha, the future of humanity is at stake.

Those countries which wanted to join have agency, but they don’t decide if they are accepted or not. The US does, with a few other big players. The rest rubber stamp what was decided by the big boys.

Finally, both the US and Russia had an interest in those nukes not staying in Ukraine. In fact the Ukrainians changed their mind at the last moment, but they were more or less forced/bribed to take the agreement.

Re:European natural gas imports and storage reserves by soco on Tuesday September 13, 2022 @11:02AM (#32825201)
Turkey apparently didn't get this rubber-stamping message, and used their vote for own gains. To me this still looks pretty much like a state deciding for themselves.
Re:European natural gas imports and storage reserves by blub on Tuesday September 13, 2022 @04:14PM (#32829638)
Turkey are an important member of NATO and they know it. They’re also hosting US nuclear missiles.
Re:European natural gas imports and storage reserves by gdy on Tuesday September 13, 2022 @09:54AM (#32824316)
"which you give no agency"

It takes two to tango. Those countries didn't promise anything to Russia, but the West did.

"Should a finger be pointed"

Yes, please. But be sure to read the memorandum to the end, where you will find the Annex describing West's and Russia's commitment to the common inclusive security system for all Europe. The NATO expansion that followed is nothing like that.