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Re:WikiHouse – Open source, modular, wood based, zero carbon... by forgetfreeman on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @01:17PM (#32753402)
I've seen catastrophic moisture damage in every form of home construction utilized in North America from the 1850s to present day. Anecdotally the most common failure modes break down roughly thus:

1850s-1960s: Termite damage followed by rot. This time frame is notable for ready availability of dense, tightly grained building materials. Lumber from this time period shrugs off all but the most egregious wetting cycles. So what happens is high humidity attracts termites which break down the structure. This in turn gives rot a plate to establish a foothold and spread (slowly).

1970s-1990s: This period is notable for a steady decline in quality of building materials and introduction of first and second generation engineered products. First-to-market siding products, condensation issues due to the aluminum craze in the 80s, and material adhesives edging out toward the end of their life expectancy all contribute to problems with mold/rot. Looser grained building materials also mean that when a problem is present it will quickly spread to larger areas of the structure than older materials would permit under similar conditions.

2000-2010: Easily the absolute nadir of home building in the US. The industry saw a massive influx of "budget" engineered materials, with no substantive changes to code to address the deficiencies of these materials. My personal favorite from this era include OSB siding that turned into a kitchen sponge whenever the paint layer was breached.

2010-present: same as it ever was. The market is still flooded with engineered materials that have a fraction of the life expectancy of more traditional materials. Building codes have largely caught up with the obvious limitations of these materials, however now the biggest issue is as a nation we are short two full generations of trained craftspeople in the construction industry and as such installation errors are rampant. This leads to more and bigger issues, bigger abatement projects, and in significantly newer homes. Case in point: a pinhole leak in a caulk seam on a window surround that resulted in all of the structural members surrounding that window, the wall cladding, the sill beam, a section of the floor, and several joists rotting out in short order. Root cause: didn't use plywood. Engineered sheathing acted like an enormous sponge both retaining and broadcasting moisture to all of the surrounding materials.

So yeah, you're not wrong inasmuch as according to theory and per code it is within the realm of possibility to use these construction methods and materials successfully. In practice, however, the least competent subcontractor on any given jobsite presents a hard ceiling to what one can get away with. You design a fault-intolerant system that has any flavor of complexity to it's installation and odds are good someone's going to screw something up. The Achilles Heel of modern vapor tight building systems is the fact that houses leak. Either through incompetence during the initial build or breakdown of materials over time all houses leak. Whereas older construction methods would tolerate this to varying degrees, newer systems do not.

Re:WikiHouse – Open source, modular, wood based, zero carbon... by wpietri on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @01:51PM (#32753800)
This is fascinating stuff. So what would you do if you were building a house today?
Re:WikiHouse – Open source, modular, wood based, zero carbon... by forgetfreeman on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @04:22PM (#32756251)
Assuming I was building in the Southeast where I live, that someone handed me a blank check, and without drilling down to specific products?

- Hardwood timber framing

- Stone or masonry curtain wall from the foundation to the bottom of the window sills.

- Fully sealed crawlspace with inline registers broadcasting conditioned air into the space

- Insulate the curtain wall instead of the interstitial space between floor joists

- Standard soffit-to-peak venting in the attic space

- Two layers of plywood subfloor separated by a layer of tar paper

- Double layered sheetrock on all interior walls

- Wall-to-wall sheet vinyl floor treatments in all of the rooms where water is a thing.

- 3/4" hardwood flooring everywhere water isn't a thing.

- Passive/active solar combo meal on the roof to offset any efficiency losses incurred by "loose" construction methods

- Temperature & humidity sensors in the crawl space & plenum

- Wood window frames and sills. Modern plastic window frames and sills are excellent at hiding a problem until it's turned into a $50k project (see also: aluminum siding). By comparsion wood trim acts as a bellwether. I'd much rather have to scrape, recaulk, and paint a window than be looking at deconstructing an exterior wall that's rotted to the foundation.

Re:WikiHouse – Open source, modular, wood based, zero carbon... by saeranv on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @09:00PM (#32759649)
> Wall-to-wall sheet vinyl floor treatments in all of the rooms where water is a thing.

Doesn't this risk any water that does end up getting in, to accumulate and cause more damage over time since there's no route for it to dry out?

I was always taught in my building science courses to put the water/air/vapour control layer inside the wall, before the insulation, so vapour can dry out from both sides.

Re:WikiHouse – Open source, modular, wood based, zero carbon... by forgetfreeman on Thursday September 08, 2022 @01:52AM (#32761690)
Pretty much, yeah, but it just never becomes an issue. Folks have been using wall to wall impermeable floor treatments (hello linoleum) in kitchens and bathrooms since the 1870s so the stuff has a pretty well established track record. Vapor barrier under the house passively blocks ground moisture, conditioning systems in the crawlspace actively prevent moisture buildup, and the floor treatment rejects both vapor and spills. In practice you'll end up renoing the floor treatment decades before any problems crop up.

If you really want to rot a floor though the absolute best A+ gold star method for doing so is adding a gas log fireplace with surround. I had a house a couple years ago that had moisture from the flue pooling inside the surround and under the unit. Rotted through 3/4" red oak hardwood flooring, 2 layers of 3/4" plywood, and bit off the top 4" of the 2x8 joists under the unit. Interior space was a solid sheet of black mold. That was one of those bag-the-room negative air pressure break-out-the-space-suits jobs. Six months later I was on a job where condensation off another gas log flue pooled inside a surround and got into the OSB cladding, then wicked 9' straight up. Only time I've ever seen cedar siding actually rot. We ended up having to cut the entire fireplace surround and a portion of the roof off the side of the house and rebuild it studs and all. Never a dull moment I tell ya.

Re:WikiHouse – Open source, modular, wood based, zero carbon... by saeranv on Thursday September 08, 2022 @12:52PM (#32768242)
Cool, fascinating to get such detailed insights from actual practise.

> ... and the floor treatment rejects both vapor and spills.

That's a good point I didn't consider. Drying out the inner surface works well for interior vapour that gets into the enclosure, but won't handle spills, or standing water well.

Re:WikiHouse – Open source, modular, wood based, zero carbon... by hedgehog on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @04:44PM (#32756564)
Fascinating, I understand most of it but why vented attic vs conditioned?
Re:WikiHouse – Open source, modular, wood based, zero carbon... by forgetfreeman on Thursday September 08, 2022 @01:32AM (#32761562)
Simplicity. Sealed crawlspace prevents the plenum from ingesting ground moisture, so as long the roof is maintained that space shouldn't see any significant issues at any point in the next century.
Re:WikiHouse – Open source, modular, wood based, zero carbon... by wpietri on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @10:53PM (#32760554)
Thanks! Very interesting.