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Re:FLAC – Format overview by Gordonjcp on Monday September 05, 2022 @05:38PM (#32729804)
When you listen to music there's a lot of "fine detail" that you can't really hear that gets buried by louder sounds.

CD audio is perfectly lossless - it encodes the signal that you put in by measuring a voltage 44100 times per second and recording that exactly. When you play it back you get exactly the same signal back out. The only problem is, this takes up a lot of space, roughly 10MB per minute for stereo audio.

MP3 audio is lossy in that rather than storing the exact values of a waveform, it stores a description of how short segments of the waveform change. The higher the bitrate, the better the description, and the more detailed the reproduction. A low bitrate MP3 is like trying to redraw the original waveform from a vague description with a paint roller, a high bitrate MP3 is like trying to draw it with a mapping pen from a really detailed description.

FLAC audio is lossless because it takes the precise values of the audio, and uses a technique similar to zip files to find similar-looking blocks of data. Think in terms of having a one-second silence recorded as "Zero, then 44099 more of 'em" rather than "zero zero zero zero zero..." and so on 44100 times.

Re:FLAC – Format overview by gspr on Monday September 05, 2022 @05:57PM (#32729976)
> CD audio is perfectly lossless - it encodes the signal that you put in by measuring a voltage 44100 times per second and recording that exactly. When you play it back you get exactly the same signal back out.

Not at all! CD audio amplitude is quantized to 16 bits, and temporally sampled at 44100 Hz as you say. Certainly very high quality, but there's absolutely a loss (that nobody can really hear).

Re:FLAC – Format overview by afiori on Monday September 05, 2022 @06:59PM (#32730486)
In terms of media formats lossless in practice means "relative to the input device".

Otherwise image formats could not be lossless for the same reasons (at the very least very few of them store the polarity of the light)

Re:FLAC – Format overview by Gordonjcp on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @03:28AM (#32734064)
Holography stores phase, I guess.
Re:FLAC – Format overview by seba_dos1 on Monday September 05, 2022 @07:00PM (#32730488)
> that nobody can really hear

I know that when I was about 10yo, I could hear a tiny suggestion of something audible when I tested my hearing at around 23-24kHz. I guess that if you had some really loud content around these frequencies and had equipment that could reproduce it perfectly, it would be not impossible for it to influence my listening experience those many years ago :)

Re:FLAC – Format overview by iggldiggl on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @06:24AM (#32735161)
Although there's also a difference between being able to hear a single tone, and being able to reliably perceive a difference in some more complex bit of noise.

Testing with https://www.audiocheck.net/blindtests_frequency.php, my hearing limit in the white noise case for example is at least 1 to 2 kHz lower than my hearing limit for a single frequency sinus tone.

Re:FLAC – Format overview by seba_dos1 on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @06:56AM (#32735368)
Oh absolutely, hence the stressed out words in cursive. It isn't going to make any meaningful difference even for a 10yo with perfect hearing - for listening, 44100Hz sample rate is more than enough, and 48000Hz provides large enough headroom to already make any semi-reasonable "audiophile" sleep calm.
Re:FLAC – Format overview by Gordonjcp on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @03:30AM (#32734082)
I used to be able to locate the computer section of WH Smiths or John Menzies in the 1980s and go and play on the ZX Spectrums and Commodore 64s (and other oddities - the one in Arbroath had a couple of Memotech MTX512s!) by hearing the 15kHz scan line whistle from the CRT tellies they used for displays.
Re:FLAC – Format overview by Gordonjcp on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @03:28AM (#32734063)
Lossless to all practical purposes, then. With 16 bits of amplitude quantisation the smallest bit is below the noise floor of all but the quietest possible amplification, and while 44.1kHz isn't a lot it still places the corner frequency of your antialiasing filter comfortably above human hearing.

It's got way more audio bandwidth than most of the analogue masters that everyone raves about.

No, there's nothing magically audible happening with phase shifts near the steep cutoff of the antialiasing filter that isn't happening with the gentle rolloff of tape, either. Not that you could hear anyway, and even though my hearing is better than most 48-year-old industrial music enthusiasts, not that I could hear either.

For cats, even your very best equipment with perfect reproduction sounds like AM radio because their hearing tops out at 80kHz.

Re:FLAC – Format overview by gspr on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @03:29AM (#32734080)
Absolutely
Re:FLAC – Format overview by CyberDildonics on Monday September 05, 2022 @11:36PM (#32732519)
That's not what lossless means here (or anywhere).
Re:FLAC – Format overview by gspr on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @03:29AM (#32734076)
?
Re:FLAC – Format overview by CyberDildonics on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @11:04AM (#32738060)
?
Re:FLAC – Format overview by gspr on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @12:07PM (#32739088)
What would you say that lossless means, then?
Re:FLAC – Format overview by CyberDildonics on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @01:25PM (#32740207)
It isn't me making these definitions. It means that a digital signal is encoded in a way that does not lose information from its original encoding.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lossless_compression

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_Lossless_Coding

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Lossless_compression_...

This is very common terminology.

Re:FLAC – Format overview by samstave on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @01:30AM (#32733241)
Im in love with you.

Thank you