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Re:The EU Commission accepts high error rates when checking ... by ben_w on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @07:18AM (#32563150)
> > Encryption is not only important to protect private communication, but would also help perpetrators/criminals

> No.

Without going into whatever context the original quote has: doch — encryption does both. There is no technology so pure it only helps the "good guys", from fire to firearms[0] there are things we can't possibly survive without, and yet criminals can use them for crimes.

I don't know the best way to handle this with crypto, mainly because the problem is much deeper than the crypto itself: even if absolutely everyone without exception or equivocation agrees everyone gets unbreakable cryptography, it is getting ever easier to just spy directly — laser microphones on drones, using software to repurpose a WiFi antenna as a wall-penetrating radar, IR cameras, using AI for gaze detection and 3D scene reconstruction to figure out who (or what) you were looking at when you blushed — that's all coming to a blackmailer near you. (Caveat: fake images and potentially at some point 3D bioprinted fake bodies will make the evidence invalid in courts of law, but that's a whole different discussion).

The only thing I can even think to suggest is a radical liberalisation of almost every law and punishment such that we can as a society survive when everyone's crimes, misdemeanours, and administrative infractions/regulatory offences are cataloged and dealt with in real time.

The only thing I am sure of is that the future can't look anything like the examples from history — while it might be much better or much worse, it won't be even close to the same.

[0] I don't mean in the American 2nd amendment sense though, I mean an army with no firearms will loose to one that has them.

Re:The EU Commission accepts high error rates when checking ... by coldtea on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @07:31AM (#32563258)
>Without going into whatever context the original quote has: doch — encryption does both. There is no technology so pure it only helps the "good guys", from fire to firearms[0] there are things we can't possibly survive without, and yet criminals can use them for crimes.

So? Cars also help the bad guys escape from robberies faster, but we don't seem to ban those...

Not to mention knives... those can be deadly if somebody stubs you with one.

And what about clothes? Naked criminals would be much less effective...

The thing is anything can assist criminals. Why single out encryption (besides the government wanting to snoop at will)?

Re:The EU Commission accepts high error rates when checking ... by diffeomorphism on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @07:41AM (#32563339)
> Not to mention knives

Bad example. We definitely do ban carrying large knives (blade length >X), butterfly knives etc. around with you. Relatedly Germany even punishes carrying around lockpicking tools (unless that is your job) -- just carrying them.

Re:The EU Commission accepts high error rates when checking ... by ethanbond on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @07:56AM (#32563494)
Also cars have unique identifiers literally attached to the outsides of them with typefaces you can read from 100 feet away. They do this to, you know, mitigate their criminal uses.
Re:The EU Commission accepts high error rates when checking ... by White_Wolf on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @07:58AM (#32563520)
A sharp enough 3cm blade is more than enough to make someone bleed to death.

A 5cm screwdriver is more than enough to give brain damage to someone.

A flexible extension hose like the ones that go under the sink (with the nuts attached) is perfect for knocking someone out.

A titanium tipped pen is quite good if you aim for ears, temple or throat.

A tightly rolled newspaper makes a very good blunt weapon.

Breaking/banning encryption like would have minimal benefits while exposing the whole society. Don't think that only the gov't will have the secondary keys if they decide to "only" have back doors. Anyone motivated enough will have them.

If chat encryption is banned... let's say it's not hard to reintroduce it on top of existing layers for anyone motivated enough or with enough money.

Re:The EU Commission accepts high error rates when checking ... by ben_w on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @08:54AM (#32564198)
When I was a teenager (in the 90s in the UK), the police sent a guy to our school to tell us all about the new knife laws. He said that even a sharpened plastic ruler was illegal.
Re:The EU Commission accepts high error rates when checking ... by PurpleRamen on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @07:52AM (#32563453)
All those things are regulated, specifically to reduce chances for abusing them, but also to help in fetching criminals. Similar, nobody is demanding a ban on encryption (anymore), what they want (now) is the balanced middle, to allow justified access for "the good guys".

Whether the balance is good or bad, we will see. But society is all about balancing the good and the bad.

Re:The EU Commission accepts high error rates when checking ... by ajvs on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @08:19AM (#32563747)
> what they want (now) is the balanced middle, to allow justified access for "the good guys".

Which can only be done through spyware installed universally if encryption isn't going to be broken. Because that certainly isn't ripe for abuse..

Re:The EU Commission accepts high error rates when checking ... by ben_w on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @09:00AM (#32564264)
Yes, it will be abused. As will the surveillance tech that I prefer as an alternative to crypto backdoors, on the grounds that (1) the crypto is far too important to permit backdoors, and (2) it won't be possible to stop boring everyday criminals from getting surveillance tech, let alone governments, and (3) crypto is knowledge that's already out of the bag, so sufficiently motivated bad guys can still have it without backdoors even if everyone else's crypto is broken.

That's why I can only see a plausible outcome involving radical reductions in penalties for basically everything.

Re:The EU Commission accepts high error rates when checking ... by coldtea on Wednesday August 24, 2022 @03:56AM (#32576140)
>Similar, nobody is demanding a ban on encryption (anymore), what they want (now) is the balanced middle

There is no balanced middle with encryption. Things are either encrypted or their not.

"Encrypted but a third party has access" or "Encrypted, but with breakable encryption" is as good as non encrypted.

Re:The EU Commission accepts high error rates when checking ... by tresqotheq on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @08:16AM (#32563700)
> But society is all about balancing the good and the bad.

Yes, but the "bad" tends to become "good", as the members of the society becomes weaker and weaker.

Re:The EU Commission accepts high error rates when checking ... by ben_w on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @07:52AM (#32563459)
This is why I didn't go beyond the quote.

My general point is that even though crypto is necessary (despite criminals using it), keeping it available isn't sufficient.

Re:The EU Commission accepts high error rates when checking ... by ccvannorman on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @07:40AM (#32563334)
This comment is gold, I'm definitely going to be using these arguments!

Indeed, food is also helpful to criminals, without proper nourishment they would be less capable