Clojure & Python, Side by Side

Re:Clojure & Python, Side by Side by skylan_q on Saturday November 19, 2011 @04:25PM (#3256288)

Yea... I'm still confused as to the whole point of pure/near-pure functional programming if we're not getting better code density/more productivity against other languages which I (and some others) find easier to work with.

I guess all I'm saying is "convince me!" :) I'm all ears.

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Re:Clojure & Python, Side by Side by jkkramer on Saturday November 19, 2011 @04:52PM (#3256372)

In short: FP makes programs easier to reason about and understand by using trustworthy abstractions. Here are some resources to check out, which explain better than I could:

Why Functional Programming Matters: http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~shmat/courses/cs345/whyfp.pdf

Out of the Tar Pit: http://web.mac.com/ben_moseley/frp/paper-v1_01.pdf

Simple Made Easy: http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Simple-Made-Easy

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Re:Clojure & Python, Side by Side by spacemanaki on Saturday November 19, 2011 @05:08PM (#3256417)

The big differences between Clojure and Python are probably twofold: it's a Lisp, and it focuses on getting concurrency right. We've had Lisps for a while, and Python only really lacks Lisp macros, so let's think about the concurrency stuff...

Clojure's design goals combine some deep ideas about identity, state and time together and includes data structures and a concurrency API that supports these goals. It's going to be hard for anyone to just convince you in a comment like this, and even if they could, I'm not the one to do it as I'm a Clojure noob.

You should read this essay http://clojure.org/state and watch this talk http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Are-We-There-Yet-Rich-Hic....

I think you will find that Clojure is pretty interesting, even if you don't start using it right away. I apologize for just throwing you links, but I can't do it justice, and Rich Hickey is a great lecturer, so you'll get more from his stuff.

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Re:Clojure & Python, Side by Side by rayiner on Saturday November 19, 2011 @04:46PM (#3256357)

I mean the answer is that the Python example is nearly purely functional to begin with. It uses list comprehensions heavily and I couldn't find any mutating assignments in a quick glance of the code. Which is not surprising, since it was written by Peter Norvig, who wrote a very popular Lisp book.

I think what Clojure can offer on top of that is macros, the advantages of which are really only evident on bigger or harder problems.

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Re:Clojure & Python, Side by Side by dkersten on Saturday November 19, 2011 @05:17PM (#3256448)

getting better code density/more productivity

Its not so much about brevity or productivity as it is about correctness. Functional programming and immutable data makes it easier to reason about code and to prevent bugs/errors, especially in the context of concurrent/multicore code.

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Re:Clojure & Python, Side by Side by icandoitbetter on Saturday November 19, 2011 @04:55PM (#3256376)

You actually get better code density with Clojure, for large enough programs. And a WAY better code density when you try to do multithreading.

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