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Re:Three papers highlight results of record yield nuclear fu... by vlovich123 on Sunday August 14, 2022 @01:27PM (#32461095)
By renewables I’m assuming you mean wind & solar because fusion is 100% renewable. Even fission is basically close enough in that there’s sufficient easily accessible resources to power human society for eons. Additionally, solar panels and batteries use rare earth metals, so they’re technically not as renewable as fusion / fission (although to be fair I don’t know what materials go into a fusion / fission reactor so those metals may be needed there).

Anyway, the cost of energy with solar / wind is obviously not 0. You have to produce the panels / windmills, perform maintenance, for solar you need to clean, etc. Additionally, the energy isn’t available always so you need energy reserves like batteries, pumped water, etc to store it for use which increases the cost further. Finally, there are energy demands that solar / windmills can’t meet where you need *really* hot temperatures.

That’s why fission repeatedly is shown as the only solution to reduce dependence on fossil fuels. Fusion is great but we should be building insane amounts of nuclear reactors right now to meaningfully decarbonize our energy generation.

* EDIT: Here’s a talk [1] by Michel Laverne CSO of General Fusion. He starts talking at the ~6 minute mark and explains why renewables will never see more than 10-20% market penetration.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zzwnt0cNXM

Re:Three papers highlight results of record yield nuclear fu... by pmyteh on Sunday August 14, 2022 @02:45PM (#32461760)
> He starts talking at the ~6 minute mark and explains why renewables will never see more than 10-20% market penetration.

...and yet market penetration of wind and solar in the UK was 26.4% in July[0] and still climbing as we build more offshore wind. Plus 1.3% hydro (and 5.9% biomass if you count that as renewable).

[0]: https://www.nationalgrideso.com/electricity-explained/electr...

Re:Three papers highlight results of record yield nuclear fu... by vlovich123 on Sunday August 14, 2022 @10:33PM (#32465256)
I think the ~20% is how much it should take up if people are behaving rationally (and can also be an exaggeration, so it wasn’t intended to be something mathematically rigorous). The current regulatory environment and decades of divesting in fission construction coupled with continued investment in wind and solar makes those options look more attractive than they are economically and politically. Also important to note that there are regional differences that impact the cost benefit for a given type of tech and I don’t know if the UK has a particular geographic strength around wind like California does with solar.

There’s simply not enough battery capacity and physical land in the world for solar power plants and wind turbines to provide all the energy. Everyone always does the solar calculations ignoring the fact that energy has to be produced semi locally to where it’s used (long distance transmission is expensive and lossy). Additionally the calculations for energy capacity of renewables ignores the fact that energy that the capacity can’t be shifted to match load (without batteries).

Seriously. This is why the fossil fuel industry loves solar and wind. They’re not a serious enough threat to their business.

Re:Three papers highlight results of record yield nuclear fu... by nl on Monday August 15, 2022 @01:39AM (#32466224)
US is already at 20%. Looks like it will be 22% in 2022 and 24% in 2023 including hydro:

> We expect renewable sources will provide 22% of U.S. generation in 2022 and 24% in 2023, up from 20% in 2021.

https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/steo/report/electricity.php

> Everyone always does the solar calculations ignoring the fact that energy has to be produced semi locally to where it’s used (long distance transmission is expensive and lossy).

This is untrue. They are building a solar farm in Australia to export electricity to Singapore 3,100 miles (5,000 km) away.

https://newatlas.com/energy/sun-cable-australia-singapore-so...

In China they already have multiple operating transmission lines over 2000km.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-high-voltage_electricity...

Re:Three papers highlight results of record yield nuclear fu... by acidburnNSA on Sunday August 14, 2022 @01:58PM (#32461368)
Even fission is renewable (i.e. can power 100% of primary energy until the sun burns out) using breeder reactors, which can run with huge EROI on just the uranium and thorium traces in average crustal granite. Conveniently, breeder reactors were first demonstrated in 1952 in Idaho at the Experimental Breeder Reactor 1.

The term "renewable" is such a poor word for 'long-term sustainable'. I wish we had something that didn't make everyone think we were violating the laws of energy conservation.

Re:Three papers highlight results of record yield nuclear fu... by panick21_ on Sunday August 14, 2022 @11:11PM (#32465447)
Renewable is an incredibly dumb term.

You know what was renewable, using whale oil. That's very renewable in fact, but somehow most people are against running the global economy on whale oil.

Fission is incredibly sustainable in the long term. In fact, even if we mined all the easily expressible thorium volcanic activity actually continuously brings up more.

Re:Three papers highlight results of record yield nuclear fu... by pfdietz on Sunday August 14, 2022 @11:28PM (#32465528)
It's simply a label. Renewables are great because of their specific attributes, like cost and no CO2 emission, not because they are "renewable".
Re:Three papers highlight results of record yield nuclear fu... by panick21_ on Sunday August 14, 2022 @11:57PM (#32465727)
Yes, and my point is, its a bad label.
Re:Three papers highlight results of record yield nuclear fu... by nl on Monday August 15, 2022 @02:23AM (#32466459)
> Finally, there are energy demands that solar / windmills can’t meet where you need really hot temperatures.

What on earth does this mean?

Most (all?) industrial processes using electrical furnaces which work fine with renewables.