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Re:'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg so... by hef19898 on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @02:54PM (#32416800)
Not getting rid of "legacy" stuff that doesn't work is a, IMHO, a version of throwing good moneybafter bad money. Instead of acknowledging that the unusable code, or whatever, was a crucial part of understanding the problem, and throw it out once the problem was understood, people tend to build upon those not fit for purpose things...
Re:'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg so... by colechristensen on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @03:15PM (#32417044)
Some of the most valuable work I've ever done was spending a month creating something, throwing every byte away, and then spending two weeks creating the same thing, much improved.

The key to rework like this is you have to actually be able to finish it and get rid of the old, instead of spending months or years maintaining two half-baked versions of something instead of just one.

Re:'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg so... by stouset on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @03:24PM (#32417169)
Almost every single thing I build I throw away at least one of them, sometimes two.

The finished projects tend to stick around forever and, if they need maintenance, it’s adding a feature or two or updating dependencies.

I do backend work so this kind of workflow probably doesn’t work for customer-facing projects that need to iterate on finding traction. But for something where the problem is generally well defined and not likely to change drastically in the short or medium term, it’s amazing. I have multiple projects I’ve written that run on virtually every machine (server and workstation) at my company (former unicorn, current Fortune 500) that are effectively “done” and only need to be redeployed a couple times a year for dependency updates and preventing bitrot in general.

Having worked like this, I can confidently say I will never again remain on a team where this isn’t the normal state of affairs.

Re:'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg so... by toss1 on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @03:11PM (#32417012)
YES!!

Even coming from an attitude of being big on abstractions and generalized/scaled solutions, I cannot overstate the importance of writing a throw-away version at the outset. Hit the highlights, write it fast & dirty, use it, extend it a bit as you start to understand the system — then throw it away. Use that knowledge to design and build your real system, from scratch, but informed by your earned knowledge.

>>agile makes you iterate through pseudo productivity before you actually understood the problem, accumulating cruft that you need to maintain and extend as you go on.

And to this in the GP post, I think he identified a fundamental problem with Agile. Its entire bias is to write code fast, when the bias should be to avoid writing code — code is slow and habitat for bugs. Obviously everything requires code, but it should be minimized, not maximized. Of course, writing code quickly and seeing it run is satisfying, but developers' dopamine hits shouldn't be the primary driver of design & mgt - end performance should be, and that takes careful thought of what can be eliminated, and basing that thought on knowledge of a throw-away-version-1 is very useful, and pays benefits to both the dev team and to users for years.

Re:'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg so... by abraae on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @03:15PM (#32417043)
> The management question, therefore, is not whether to build a pilot system and throw it away. You will do that. The only question is whether to plan in advance to build a throwaway, or to promise to deliver the throwaway to customers.

Frederick P. Brooks Jr., The Mythical Man-Month: Essays on Software Engineering

Re:'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg so... by jimjimjim on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @05:03PM (#32418429)
replacing the prototype is important, but you need enough power in your org to be able to throw it away. 'nothing is as permanent as a temporary solution'
Re:'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg so... by cassianoleal on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @03:15PM (#32417055)
Code is Liability, the Less the Better

https://www.infoq.com/news/2011/05/less-code-is-better/

Re:'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg so... by ok123456 on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @06:12PM (#32419081)
Until your boss doesn't understand this concept and thinks your prototype is a finished system, even after explaining the fact it's just a demo that you made to help gather requirements time-and-time-again.
Re:'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg so... by hef19898 on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @06:32PM (#32419268)
Also goes the other way, developers believing something is good while totally ignoring user feedback stating otherwise.

Admittesly so, you example so much more frequent.