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Re:Our brain is a prediction machine that is always active by grantcas on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @12:52PM (#32400445)
It's becoming clear that with all the brain and consciousness theories out there, the proof will be in the pudding. By this I mean, can any particular theory be used to create a human adult level conscious machine. My bet is on the late Gerald Edelman's Extended Theory of Neuronal Group Selection. The lead group in robotics based on this theory is the Neurorobotics Lab at UC at Irvine. Dr. Edelman distinguished between primary consciousness, which came first in evolution, and that humans share with other conscious animals, and higher order consciousness, which came to only humans with the acquisition of language. A machine with primary consciousness will probably have to come first.

What I find special about the TNGS is the Darwin series of automata created at the Neurosciences Institute by Dr. Edelman and his colleagues in the 1990's and 2000's. These machines perform in the real world, not in a restricted simulated world, and display convincing physical behavior indicative of higher psychological functions necessary for consciousness, such as perceptual categorization, memory, and learning. They are based on realistic models of the parts of the biological brain that the theory claims subserve these functions. The extended TNGS allows for the emergence of consciousness based only on further evolutionary development of the brain areas responsible for these functions, in a parsimonious way. No other research I've encountered is anywhere near as convincing.

I post because on almost every video and article about the brain and consciousness that I encounter, the attitude seems to be that we still know next to nothing about how the brain and consciousness work; that there's lots of data but no unifying theory. I believe the extended TNGS is that theory. My motivation is to keep that theory in front of the public. And obviously, I consider it the route to a truly conscious machine, primary and higher-order.

My advice to people who want to create a conscious machine is to seriously ground themselves in the extended TNGS and the Darwin automata first, and proceed from there, by applying to Jeff Krichmar's lab at UC Irvine, possibly. Dr. Edelman's roadmap to a conscious machine is at https://arxiv.org/abs/2105.10461

Re:Our brain is a prediction machine that is always active by drittich on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @02:07PM (#32401545)
I noticed that your only comments are 4 that are almost identical to the above. Is this because you are truly single-minded, or perhaps this is an AI/ML bot account?
Re:Our brain is a prediction machine that is always active by naeemtee on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @01:06PM (#32400655)
> Dr. Edelman distinguished between primary consciousness, which came first in evolution, and that humans share with other conscious animals, and higher order consciousness, which came to only humans with the acquisition of language.

Interestingly, this is (roughly) the Qur'anic explanation for the genesis of human consciousness.

Re:Our brain is a prediction machine that is always active by aaaaaaaaaaab on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @01:24PM (#32400912)
A broken clock is right twice a day.
Re:Our brain is a prediction machine that is always active by chimineycricket on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @02:19PM (#32401741)
Quran also states that the big bang is real[0]. Make that 3 times a day

[0]: https://quran.com/21/30

Re:Our brain is a prediction machine that is always active by 22122 on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @02:25PM (#32401812)
the quran also has a math error in its inheritence laws: https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/98rpd8/qurans_mat...
Re:Our brain is a prediction machine that is always active by mtlmtlmtlmtl on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @02:52PM (#32402270)
It makes a statement that can be interpreted that way with some help, sure. Sort of like how the ancient greeks came up with atoms, evolution etc. But it was just a vague idea, really, nothing very concrete.
Re:Our brain is a prediction machine that is always active by madaxe_again on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @02:30PM (#32401916)
I think language is required for communicative sentience, but not for consciousness - I mean, bees are obviously conscious. Sense of self, doubtful - but certainly present in other higher order vertebrates.

Unconscious intelligence is vastly underrated. I learned to use mine, early on. Consciously, I’m kinda average cognitionwise - but I figured out many years ago that if I just go with the first answer that tumbles into my head from seemingly nowhere, it’s usually right, and the moment I start consciously thinking, it goes wrong. It’s like trying to catch yourself looking elsewhere in the mirror - you can’t ask directly, but the computer already has the answer long before your language driven abstraction layer can grind there.

See also: savants.

Re:Our brain is a prediction machine that is always active by edgyquant on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @05:35PM (#32404646)
We don’t judge physicists, biologists, etc by their engineering ability. The theory of the mind will be won by that hypothesis which makes the most accurate predictions. I would also wager that engineering a mind will depend on that theory, not the reverse.