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Re:NSA, NIST, and post-quantum crypto: my second lawsuit aga... by tptacek on Monday August 08, 2022 @05:49PM (#32391523)
WireGuard's design is superior to that of its competitors, and one of its distinctive features is that it lacks formal standardization. It's not as if we don't have decades of experiences with attempts to standardize our way into strong cryptography; see IPSEC for a particularly notorious example of how badly standards processes handle this stuff.
Re:NSA, NIST, and post-quantum crypto: my second lawsuit aga... by dowlingbj on Monday August 08, 2022 @06:11PM (#32391747)
For sure, if a standardization process had been called to design a VPN protocol, I'd agree that the resulting design would almost certainly be less than WireGuard. I think that the competitive nature of the PQC process as well as soliciting completed submissions as opposed to a process to build from the ground-up helps in this regard. I don't think that engages with the point I was making, however: the original submission of WireGuard made claims that were incorrect, which would have arguably been caught sooner if it were a part of a formal standardization process, since researchers would have been incentivized to analyse it sooner.
Re:NSA, NIST, and post-quantum crypto: my second lawsuit aga... by lmeyerov on Monday August 08, 2022 @06:27PM (#32391904)
Having come from a community that is often cleanup duty for unfounded claims (PL) and having to spend ~decade+ $100M+ efforts to do so... I didn't realize that about wireguard. That's pretty strange to read in 2022.
Re:NSA, NIST, and post-quantum crypto: my second lawsuit aga... by dowlingbj on Monday August 08, 2022 @06:33PM (#32391963)
To be clear, WireGuard is a good VPN protocol, and definitely a secure design. I wouldn't recommend another over it. It's just the initial claims of security in the NDSS paper were incompatible with its design.
Re:NSA, NIST, and post-quantum crypto: my second lawsuit aga... by lmeyerov on Monday August 08, 2022 @10:01PM (#32393457)
I'm sure it's a pretty good one, but it's quite hard to trust more than that both on the design + impl side if you ever have tried to verify (vs just test) such a system. Think the years of pain for something much more trivial like paxos + an impl of it.

In this case, looks like the community does value backing up its claims, and the protocol is verified: https://www.wireguard.com/formal-verification/ . Pretty awesome! The implementation itself seems to be written unsafely, so TBD there.