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Re:Post-Apocalyptic Programming by WalterBright on Monday August 08, 2022 @12:48PM (#32387894)
> Let me know when libertarianism achieves any more than attracting bears

My pleasure. The United States was founded on libertarian principles (excluding allowing slavery to continue, this was fixed in 1865).

The result was the rise if poor people to the most successful nation in the world, and the greatest rise in the wealth of those poor people.

This did not happen in, say, South America, that was discovered and colonized at the same time. The Antebellum South also did not prosper under slavery and was crushed by the free economy of the North.

Other countries which embraced libertarian principles also experience a surge in their economies, like the German Miracle after WW2, same for Japan.

Re:Post-Apocalyptic Programming by Nursie on Monday August 08, 2022 @10:40PM (#32393710)
> The United States was founded on libertarian principles

It certainly wasn't based on modern libertarian principles, or there would not have been much of a government in the first place.

It certainly pays lip service to freedom, but pre-dates the modern libertarian obsession with contract and property law as supreme above all others.

Re:Post-Apocalyptic Programming by WalterBright on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @12:26AM (#32394144)
The US government in its first century wasn't the all-powerful government it evolved into.

> libertarian obsession with contract and property law as supreme above all others

Contracts are always superceded by government laws under libertarianism.

Re:Post-Apocalyptic Programming by Nursie on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @02:37AM (#32394883)
Then you've been talking to different libertarians than I have over the last couple of decades.
Re:Post-Apocalyptic Programming by WalterBright on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @10:00AM (#32398031)
I'm glad you're finally talking to an actual one. Many people call themselves one who haven't actually thought much or read much about it.

If you want a book written by another actual libertarian, "Free to Choose" by Milton Friedman is a good start.

The neato thing about libertarianism is it doesn't have to be perfect in order to work. Since nothing about human societies can be perfect, this is fine feature. The more libertarian a country is, the better it runs.

Re:Post-Apocalyptic Programming by Nursie on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @12:43AM (#32407924)
This is in stark contrast to the example I gave above, of Grafton NH, which demonstrates in microcosm how libertarianism helps things fall apart.

Largely because when given the freedom to contract with whomever they want for garbage disposal, a lot of people just didn't.