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Re:Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan by CamperBob2 on Sunday August 07, 2022 @02:57PM (#32378809)
Wow, not hard to see how the next 9/11 will happen. The staff at the charter jet terminal were almost criminally clueless.

"So, how exactly does the security work around here, anyway? Is this huge crate going to be X-rayed? Because it needs to not be X-rayed. Also, here's a $10,000 tip, just to make sure you, um, don't remember us."

Re:Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan by Nextgrid on Sunday August 07, 2022 @03:11PM (#32378940)
I'm not sure how much this is a 9/11 risk?

As far as I know the protection against "taking a jet and crashing it into a building" is a squadron of fighter jets that are quickly dispatched to (if necessary) shoot down any plane on a risky path. That's exactly what happened when some mentally unstable airport employee "stole" a plane and committed suicide by crashing it into the water after a few stunts.

The other risk would be to take passengers hostage, but in case of a chartered plane I think it's fair game to let the customer themselves decide on the level of security they need - presumably they aren't harboring any terrorists/hijackers, and I would think hijacking a private corporate flight is really low on terrorist groups' bucket lists in terms of the expected "payoff".

Re:Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan by protastus on Sunday August 07, 2022 @04:42PM (#32379698)
> As far as I know the protection against "taking a jet and crashing it into a building" is a squadron of fighter jets that are quickly dispatched to (if necessary) shoot down any plane on a risky path.

It's 16 miles from JFK airport to Manhattan. A jet plane can fly this distance in less than 5 minutes at sea level, within a normal flight envelope.

There's latency recognizing from the ground that an airliner needs to be intercepted, launching alert fighters, and getting authorization to shoot down.

Trust is involved in allowing a big container to be loaded on a plane.

Re:Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan by CamperBob2 on Sunday August 07, 2022 @03:12PM (#32378949)
You're not wrong, but still, the events recounted in this article provide a near-perfect template for some really horrific shenanigans.
Re:Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan by pfisherman on Sunday August 07, 2022 @05:15PM (#32379981)
It’s possible that the operatives knew something about Japanese customs and etiquette and the $10,000 tip was intended to distract the employees at the airport.

If they are worried about navigating a delicate social situation - rejecting the money without offense / loss of face - then they aren’t thinking about the boxes or the flimsy cover story.

The article said that this scenario - rejecting tips from uninformed foreigners - was not uncommon; but that the amount involved and what that amount implied about the potential of a future business relationship made the situation more delicate.

Re:Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan by npinsker on Sunday August 07, 2022 @08:57PM (#32381428)
I think this was very likely the case. It has the feel of a magic trick —- intentionally drawing your attention to one particular point so you don’t see what they don’t want you to.
Re:Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan by CamperBob2 on Sunday August 07, 2022 @10:54PM (#32382033)
Could be. However, the risk is that if I were already the slightest bit suspicious, even subconsciously, I would go full red alert when that envelope of cash came out.

I'd (like to think I'd) bow discreetly, slip the envelope into my pocket, and excuse myself. Then I'd be on the phone to security before my office door swung closed.

Re:Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan by prvit on Sunday August 07, 2022 @05:59PM (#32380316)
lol, what’s the concern? Someone will blow up their private jet with 5 people on board? boo-hoo.

There are no hardened (or any) cockpit doors on PJs, you eat with metal cutlery and often serve yourself drinks from large glass bottles.

Want to fly a plane into a building? Anyone can get a pilots license, there are no background checks. You can just rent a plane and pull off “the next 9/11”, no amount of terminal security can solve this.

What exactly is your concern? What would better security at a private jet terminal prevent?

It’s super unusual that there were any pre-departure controls at all. I’ve never had my stuff checked while flying private, except occasionally by customs, at arrival.

Re:Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan by Scoundreller on Sunday August 07, 2022 @06:04PM (#32380360)
> Want to fly a plane into a building? Anyone can get a pilots license, there are no background checks. You can just rent a plane and pull off “the next 9/11”, no amount of terminal security can solve this.

Yes, those are concerns.

Re:Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan by prvit on Sunday August 07, 2022 @06:07PM (#32380389)
How are “The staff at the charter jet terminal” supposed to address this? Those are the people GP called “criminally clueless”, suggesting that the lack of pre-departure controls for private jets will cause the next 9/11.
Re:Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan by CamperBob2 on Sunday August 07, 2022 @08:45PM (#32381357)
I'm not saying that private charter flights should get the whole TSA treatment. They certainly shouldn't.

I'm just saying, when you run into some people who claim to be classical musicians but who don't look or behave anything like any musicians you've ever heard of, who are travelling on an unusual schedule with unusual luggage, who ask a lot of oddly-specific questions about security, who seem overly concerned with whether or not a large crate will get X-rayed, and who offer you large quantities of cash for unclear reasons, it's worth at least a quick ping to airport security.

Re:Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan by prvit on Monday August 08, 2022 @07:08AM (#32384206)
> it's worth at least a quick ping to airport security.

“airport security” generally doesn’t show up for free, it’s a paid service.

Re:Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan by CamperBob2 on Monday August 08, 2022 @01:34PM (#32388514)
Interesting, I didn't know that. Seems weird to discourage people from flagging suspicious activity. "See something, say something" doesn't mean you have to go full Stasi, just keep your eyes open and use some common sense.
Re:Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan by Scoundreller on Sunday August 07, 2022 @07:20PM (#32380882)
Fire the criminally clueless and replace their setup with the security that’s setup for every other airport terminal.

And if you need a background check for a HAM radio license, it makes sense to have a background check for pilot licenses.

Re:Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan by prvit on Sunday August 07, 2022 @08:56PM (#32381424)
> Fire the criminally clueless and replace their setup with the security that’s setup for every other airport terminal.

What will that achieve? How many terror attacks have there been on board private planes?

> And if you need a background check for a HAM radio license, it makes sense to have a background check for pilot licenses.

An useful background check would be something more akin to a security clearance, not like a HAM radio license.

Re:Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan by Scoundreller on Sunday August 07, 2022 @10:10PM (#32381802)
1. How many successful terror attacks have happened with any plane currently flying? Zero. How many terror attacks have I committed? Zero.

Why do we still check those? Whatever checking private planes would achieve.

Maybe that's nothing, but annoying safety/security measures need to be all or nothing. No exemptions.

2. You didn't understand re: HAM radio, you have to report your felonies for a HAM radio license and that gets reviewed, in USA anyway: http://www.arrl.org/fcc-qualification-question

Re:Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan by prvit on Monday August 08, 2022 @03:05AM (#32383033)
> Why do we still check those? Whatever checking private planes would achieve.

Regular passenger flights often contain hundreds of random people, private jets don’t. It’s downright idiotic to equate these.

> 2. You didn't understand re: HAM radio, you have to report your felonies for a HAM radio license and that gets reviewed, in USA anyway

I did understand.

Re:Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan by trhway on Sunday August 07, 2022 @04:56PM (#32379813)
Laws, including custom checks, passport checks, etc. are for regular people. There was even a recent program on NPR how different is the life of super-wealthy.

And while super-wealthy is a totally different game, even upper middle class money already distort the reality in a much more comfortable way. I'm watching a case in Santa Clara of an NVIDIA director, a Russian immigrant, who 2 years ago being drunk and speeding on I-80 hit several cars and killed a woman (all that "allegedly" as the moron does evidently have money for lawyers). It happened about the same time as a famous actor in Russia driving drunk killed a man in an accident, and that sparked my curiosity to compare how the cases would go. The Russian actor, a relatively decent human being, chose a path of a regular person and instead of applying all his star power/etc. he is already almost 2 years into his 7 years prison term. The NVIDIA director on the other hand totally lawyered up, and there have since then been uncountable motions/hearings/etc. with no sign of progress. My guess is that he will have that charade going for a long as possible - given the money he makes, the lawyers is just a minor cost of doing business for him - and if/when things start to come to an outcome he doesn't like, he would just leave the country, doesn't even need a box like Ghosn, and go back to Russia or anywhere else where no extradition treaties with US (his bail is just $275K, pretty laughable given the NVIDIA director comp).

Re:Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan by prvit on Sunday August 07, 2022 @06:00PM (#32380333)
> Laws, including custom checks, passport checks, etc. are for regular people. There was even a recent program on NPR how different is the life of super-wealthy.

Customs checks hardly affect regular people. Security checks are an optional service you can pay for, but probably won’t bother if it’s your own plane and isn’t full of hundreds of random people. Rich people still have passport checks, they just pay the government to send the passport control people to their private terminal (which is no different than how regular privately owned commercial airports work)

It’s all exactly the same, except as a rich person you’re far more likely to be picked for a customs check.

> The NVIDIA director on the other hand totally lawyered up, and there have since then been uncountable motions/hearings/etc. with no sign of progress.

due process bad!

Re:Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan by trhway on Sunday August 07, 2022 @07:45PM (#32381038)
What kind of due process you get depends on your money, and that is bad. In particular people rot in jail for months and years on much smaller bails until they just take the plea deal.

And about passport checks I repeated the NPR as I have no first hand experience with private jet :)

Re:Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan by prvit on Sunday August 07, 2022 @08:55PM (#32381412)
Problem isn’t that rich people have it better, the problem is that poor people have it much worse.
Re:Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan by MomoXenosaga on Monday August 08, 2022 @04:10AM (#32383349)
We should have "public service" for lawyers. Every defence attorney needs to 2 months of every year defending poor people.
Re:Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan by trhway on Sunday August 07, 2022 @09:35PM (#32381641)
If rich people had it like poor then the situation would have improved overnight.
Re:Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan by pfisherman on Sunday August 07, 2022 @05:37PM (#32380161)
> My guess is that he will have that charade going for a long as possible.

I don’t know about the this. Money and fame didn’t save Phil Spector and it won’t save him.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Spector

Re:Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan by MomoXenosaga on Monday August 08, 2022 @04:07AM (#32383330)
Well there is a reason why people try so hard to get rich! If it didn't give you privileges nobody would bother. As a child I will always remember OJ Simpson and his TEAM of lawyers.

For some reason our society needs to believe in "justice is blind" lmao.

Re:Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan by someperson on Tuesday August 09, 2022 @11:34AM (#32399374)
> There was even a recent program on NPR how different is the life of super-wealthy.

Link?