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Re:The Long Road Home - From Microsoft to Linux by pimeys on Sunday November 13, 2011 @06:09AM (#3230498)
> The ability to type "varname." and get a list of what I can do with it is so powerful. I can use a (well designed) open source library that I just NuGet'ed in, without ever even looking at its docs. Can you write PHP without alt-tabbing to the manual all the time? Can you do it with Ruby?

I usually don't need any documentation with Ruby. I remember how the libraries I use work. But I'm that kind of guy, who first reads the source from Github and then start programming the thing by my own. I hated with Microsoft libraries, that I had to use reflector to see inside the library, when it didn't work like it should've been. Now I'll hit the fork button if the library contains a bug and I need a fast fix right now.

Re:The Long Road Home - From Microsoft to Linux by kenjackson on Sunday November 13, 2011 @10:03AM (#3230856)
Reading code seems like a crazy inefficient way to understand libraries. Maybe you're just a much better code reader than anyone I've ever met -- in which case, more power to you.
Re:The Long Road Home - From Microsoft to Linux by mgkimsal on Sunday November 13, 2011 @11:12AM (#3231017)
I see this attitude of "read the library source" most often from Ruby people, but some advocates of larger PHP frameworks advocate that approach as well, and I just don't buy it. At least, not across the board. Sure, if there's a bug, I can try to track it down, maybe submit a patch, but if something can't be bothered to be documented, I'm not sure I want to spend my time depending on that library.

I've certainly made exceptions to that - we probably all have - but treating that as the defacto way to approach using third party libraries is wholly inefficient (as you said).

One might take a better approach by saying "read and learn from the test cases". I've often found that for the libs I try that with, that have tests, they're often rather... what's the word? I can't easily figure out how to apply the library to the problem I have at hand. Sometimes it's because my problem is ill-defined, and sometimes it's because the tests only cover superficial cases, and even if the lib docs say "can do xyz", it's not tested not documented.

Such is software...

Re:The Long Road Home - From Microsoft to Linux by pimeys on Sunday November 13, 2011 @02:07PM (#3231484)
I can understand your point. But for me the short documentation has never been such a problem. There's usually some example cases how to use the library in the README.md, and that is mostly everything I need. Sometimes it is necessary to read through the code for better understanding, and I really like to be able to do that.

Without Github though, the situation would be much more annoying.