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Re:Wayland Core Protocol Is Tailored Only for Gnome and That... by jrm4 on Sunday July 31, 2022 @01:35PM (#32297117)
Maybe I'm old, but it's just stunning to me how many pro Wayland people seem to strongly miss this general point.

Whatever good things Wayland's been up to, it's been historically dismissive if not outright hostile to backward compatibility and integration, and that's not acceptable. I keep hearing, well it's what the old X people want, and I don't care.

Similarly, don't come with the goofy "It's open source so you don't have the right to criticize." False false false. That wrongly implies it's a bunch of plucky happy-go-lucky volunteers doing this out of the kindness of their hearts. Nope. It's companies with agendas and they need to do better.

Re:Wayland Core Protocol Is Tailored Only for Gnome and That... by bitwize on Sunday July 31, 2022 @07:38PM (#32299975)
I can't say whether Wayland was specifically designed for GNOME or not. There seems to be evidence that it was also designed for the use cases of mobile devices and embedded applications like in-car entertainment systems.

(Let's leave aside the fact that Nokia designed a beautiful mobile interface built on X, in-plane entertainment systems have been running on Linux and X for over a decade, and X servers were historically implemented on 286 hardware for use as dedicated X terminals.)

What I can say is Wayland was developed and promoted with a GNOME developer mentality, which is a combination of:

* CADT (jwz dot org slash doc slash cadt dot html)

* What you're using sucks! Here, adopt my shiny new thing to make your environment not suck! (literally dates back to GNOME's inception, see: https://qodsec.blogspot.com/2004/06/unix-lets-make-unix-not-... )

* We've built a solution for what we have determined to be the common use case. Why should we care about your obscure, niche use case that absolutely nobody (that matters) uses?

With a heaping side of "it's from Red Hat, so it's the standard" and "it's open source so you don't have the right to criticize". Basically, what happens when young, eager developers are given the opportunity to implement and potentially standardize core desktop features (and thus build what they think is "a better Windows" or "a better Mac") but don't have the advantage of experience of previous software designs in the Unix/Linux workstation space and their benefits and drawbacks.

If people keep staying on X11, I suspect that the next phase will be "refusal to adopt Wayland is a strong indicator of racism/misogyny/homophobia/transphobia".

Re:Wayland Core Protocol Is Tailored Only for Gnome and That... by sph on Monday August 01, 2022 @05:02AM (#32303581)
Nice straw man you've built there.
Re:Wayland Core Protocol Is Tailored Only for Gnome and That... by jrm4 on Monday August 01, 2022 @09:18AM (#32305526)
Ha. I somehow love and hate your last sentence. Generally, this criticism is spot on.