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Re:We don't do that here (2017) by pclmulqdq on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @12:51PM (#32252896)
The theory of gravity has been ossified by the fact that every freshman physics student tests it and determines that it is correct. That is the correct way to build consensus around an "ossified" idea: to show people that it is obviously true. Even if the truth is uncomfortable, like it was to the Catholic church in 1600. If you try to suppress discussion instead, you lend credence to the idea that you have something to hide. Eventually the truth will win. If you have the truth on your side, why try to suppress its discovery?

Similarly, we used to be interested in showing people that racism was bad. Anti-racism educators and consultants would talk about the economic benefits of widening your market or your employee pool. Now that we instead call people "racist" to shut down discussion, actual racists are gaining ideological footholds, and lots of people are suspicious of the people who call others "racist."

People are not stupid. If you want them to agree with you, you should not talk down to them.

Re:We don't do that here (2017) by PeterWhittaker on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @01:35PM (#32253594)
> The theory of gravity has been ossified

I’m sorry, I’m not sure what to make of this: whether or not GR (our current ToG) is correct, and, if not, what’s missing or how it might be wrong is a hugely important active field of research.

As is, of course, trying to integrate QM and GR.

They aren’t ossified, they are hard. Conceptually hard. Mathematically hard. And a few other hards.

Re:We don't do that here (2017) by pclmulqdq on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @01:47PM (#32253798)
Sorry, I misspoke. The theory of gravity is actually a really interesting physics problem, but the fact that gravity acts on objects is pretty much undisputed.
Re:We don't do that here (2017) by mcguire on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @03:18PM (#32255364)
Hardly! If you put an object in empty space, without any other objects nearby, it will be completely unaffected by gravity. Unless the object is large enough that its own gravity can overcome its structural or material resistance to being crushed. Further, unless an object is actually in contact with another object, it is unaffected by gravity from its own reference frame. The apple falling out of the tree (neglecting air resistance) has no way of knowing that it is falling.
Re:We don't do that here (2017) by pclmulqdq on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @05:09PM (#32257003)
Well, unless that object was a single particle, it would still be affected by gravity. It would be slightly larger without the force of gravity attracting the atoms together.
Re:We don't do that here (2017) by giraffe_lady on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @12:55PM (#32252949)
If racist policies are economically effective, are they therefore justified? Moral? Even stepping into a debate on some subjects communicates that it potentially has some merits.

I think it's reasonable to resist that on the grounds that humans aren't gravity, no one is going to come up with newton's laws of how to treat each other. These things aren't facts of the universe that can be revealed to us, they are decisions we must make using our own resources. Debate is one of those resources, but not the only one, not even the most valuable one, not one that is appropriate at all times in all places for all ideas.

Re:We don't do that here (2017) by pclmulqdq on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @12:57PM (#32252990)
No, but explaining economics to a business owner is more likely to get through to them than talking about the social benefits. When you try to convince someone of something, you convince them of the benefits to them, not the high-minded benefits to society. We used to understand that.

Edit: By the way, if it's good for society, and not for you, there should be laws about it. That's why the eugenicists in the early 1900's (who believed that racism was a social good) enforced Jim Crow Laws: businesses often refused to discriminate unless the law forced them.

Re:We don't do that here (2017) by giraffe_lady on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @01:05PM (#32253114)
Yes, you should tailor your communication to the audience, and join a technical debate on a subject when it's valuable to do so.

I think the technique in the article is best used in situations where you specifically do not want to do so. When there's no value for you in the debate, or you will only be giving legitimacy to a discredited and harmful idea.

Saying "we don't do that here" is definitely a bit of a power play and you wouldn't use it if you truly needed to convince the other party to believe the thing. If you merely need them to act on it though, and you have the power to pull it, it's fine for that.