News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Runway melts at London Luton airport as temperatures in U... by Sharlin on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @01:28PM (#32155070)
Yes, in other words: the darker a thing is, the darker it is. Is someone here actually suprised by the everyday phenomenon that dark objects get hotter than light-colored ones?

(Edit: I apologize for the uncalled for smugness. But "albedo" is not some special physical quantity, it's literally a measure of how light/dark colored a material is. "Alba" is Latin for "white". Although granted, albedo is usually measured across the whole spectrum, not only the visible part.)

Re:Runway melts at London Luton airport as temperatures in U... by ridgeguy on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @04:18PM (#32157379)
Not necessarily true. It depends on the object's optical properties.

I well remember working on my parents' car in Phoenix summers. The chromed wrenches on our driveway surface got to instant-blister temperatures. Tools with black surfaces were uncomfortable to pick up, but were usable.

The chromed tools had a lower absorption of sunlight than the black tools, but their IR radiation coefficient was even lower. So equilibrium temperature (at which radiated energy = incident energy) was much higher for the chromed tools.

Re:Runway melts at London Luton airport as temperatures in U... by WalterBright on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @04:49PM (#32157760)
I was always careful to put my tools in the shade under the car :-)

(Used to live in Glendale.)

Re:Runway melts at London Luton airport as temperatures in U... by powerhour on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @01:31PM (#32155126)
No need to be an asshole about it. Some folks probably don't know the relative darkness of asphalt and tarmac.
Re:Runway melts at London Luton airport as temperatures in U... by Sharlin on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @01:46PM (#32155346)
But according to GP's numbers, tarmac is less dark than asphalt so should get less hot than asphalt. But those numbers are suspect and probably only refer to very fresh asphalt/tarmac; the albedo aka "lightness" of worn asphalt is something like 0.3.
Re:Runway melts at London Luton airport as temperatures in U... by onlyrealcuzzo on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @01:46PM (#32155341)
Snow can have an albedo lower than 50% - and non-white sand can have an albedo higher than that.

It's not as simple as color.

In particular, there are dark things that have an albedo higher than asphalt's 0.05...

Re:Runway melts at London Luton airport as temperatures in U... by Scoundreller on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @01:34PM (#32155160)
Dark will get hotter in sunlight but can be cooler at night if the sky is unobstructed.
Re:Runway melts at London Luton airport as temperatures in U... by capableweb on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @01:39PM (#32155241)
> Dark will get hotter in sunlight but can be cooler at night if the sky is unobstructed.

What would the sky be obstructed by? Clouds? How could that affect how cool tarmac on the ground gets at night?

Re:Runway melts at London Luton airport as temperatures in U... by myself248 on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @03:10PM (#32156479)
Yes, clouds.

With a clear sky, you're radiating (based on your own temperature) out to the blackness of space, which is radiating back at 4 Kelvin. Which is to say, it's contributing basically nothing. You're just giving up heat to the cosmos.

With a cloudy sky, you're radiating (based on your own temperature) out to the bottoms of the clouds, which are reflecting your radiation back to someone else on the ground, and their own heat is reflecting back to you. And such. The cloud looks white in the daytime because it's very reflective, so it acts like a mylar blanket to hold the heat in.

Re:Runway melts at London Luton airport as temperatures in U... by onlyrealcuzzo on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @01:42PM (#32155282)
Physics is strange:

> At night, when cloud coverage increases, downwelling infrared radiation also increases. So, clouds act like space heaters, emitting energy towards the ground. Blankets only limit the transfer of heat energy away from your skin(convection).

Re:Runway melts at London Luton airport as temperatures in U... by capableweb on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @02:03PM (#32155604)
Huh, that's very interesting and non-intuitive for a non-physicists like me. Thanks for the explanation!
Re:Runway melts at London Luton airport as temperatures in U... by Sharlin on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @01:44PM (#32155304)
This is what the greenhouse effect is, literally. At "thermal IR" wavelengths the sky is a blanket. Cloudy sky is even more of a blanket.
Re:Runway melts at London Luton airport as temperatures in U... by Scoundreller on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @02:38PM (#32156049)
I live near a grape growing are, and they have wind turbines to blow air on cool nights slightly above freezing because the radiation from the ground to to sky can be enough to frost-damage their crops.

So they turn them on the blow the stagnant warmer ambient air around and mitigate that.

Re:Runway melts at London Luton airport as temperatures in U... by ChrisMarshallNY on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @05:11PM (#32158047)
I was told that light reflects heat, and heats more quickly, but also radiates badly (cools more slowly).

This is why heatsinks are often painted black.

It is also the reason for all the strange white/black colors on rockets.

Re:Runway melts at London Luton airport as temperatures in U... by ChrisMarshallNY on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @05:15AM (#32163231)
> heats more quickly

Errata: “heats less quickly”.

Re:Runway melts at London Luton airport as temperatures in U... by Swizec on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @01:33PM (#32155143)
The difference between "not surprised" and "understand why" is vast. For example we (humanity) still don't understand _why_ gravity works despite not being surprised by its existence.

And don't forget the 10,000 rule: https://xkcd.com/1053/

Re:Runway melts at London Luton airport as temperatures in U... by Sharlin on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @01:43PM (#32155292)
Yes, but GP's quote was not an explanation, it was literally saying that "light objects reflect more light". Albedo literally means "whiteness" ie. how light something is.
Re:Runway melts at London Luton airport as temperatures in U... by Swizec on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @02:49PM (#32156199)
From GP:

> Traditional asphalt has a low albedo, which means it reflects radiation poorly and instead absorbs it

Seems like a pretty good high level explanation of why that matters. Darker objects absorb energy instead of reflecting it. I'm sure there's more to it than that when you get into details.

Re:Runway melts at London Luton airport as temperatures in U... by shadowgovt on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @02:05PM (#32155642)
[dead]
Re:Runway melts at London Luton airport as temperatures in U... by the_only_law on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @02:41PM (#32156090)
If you're lucky there's a course you can overpay for.