Germany to Rethink Nuclear Shutdown as Energy Crisis Deepens

Re:Germany to Rethink Nuclear Shutdown as Energy Crisis Deepens by toomuchtodo on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @11:11AM (#32152631)

This is a tired argument. The amount of land wind and solar needs to power the world is extremely small comparatively speaking [1], and nuclear just can't get built in under a decade. So we use a bunch of land, but at least it gets built (you can build the equivalent power generation of a nuclear plant, even taking into account capacity factor, with solar and batteries in ~2-3 years).

Perhaps density matters if you're attempting to escape a gravity well, but Earth is big and space is not a concern.

Y'all know enough sunlight hits the Earth every 2 minutes to power humanity for a year, right? [2] It's fusion at a distance. Someone else handles the waste, the safety risk, there is no neutron embrittlement issues.

[1] https://landartgenerator.org/blagi/archives/77565

[2] https://gulfnews.com/uae/environment/two-minutes-of-sun-enou...

(i support running existing nuclear generators as long as safely possible, and Germany should start them back up)

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Germany to Rethink Nuclear Shutdown as Energy Crisis Deepens by jiveturkey42 on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @11:16AM (#32152711)

Good luck getting the nickel and cobalt for a million acres of solar panels and batteries

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Germany to Rethink Nuclear Shutdown as Energy Crisis Deepens by toomuchtodo on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @11:17AM (#32152737)

Ain't nobody using cobalt long term. The price of nickel, copper, polysilicon, and lithium might rise based on demand, but there are ample reserves in conflict free areas, not to mention recycling supply chains to source as "premium ore." The logistical work must be done, but there are no show stoppers. Draw your attention specifically to my last two links.

https://electrek.co/2021/02/26/elon-musk-tesla-shifting-more...

https://electrek.co/2022/04/22/tesla-using-cobalt-free-lfp-b...

https://cleantechnica.com/2022/06/08/byd-to-supply-lfp-batte...

https://www.energy-storage.news/lfp-to-dominate-3twh-global-...

https://graphics.reuters.com/ELECTRIC-VEHICLES-METALS/010092...

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2022/07/18/theres-big-money-in-r...

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/modern-renewable-energy-c...

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/solar-pv-cumulative-capac...

(i personally prefer lfp due to lower thermal runaway risk for stationary storage applications; the lack of expensive conflict minerals and lower costs are a cherry on top)

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Germany to Rethink Nuclear Shutdown as Energy Crisis Deepens by __alexs on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @11:53AM (#32153464)

Is Cobalt free PV available in a timescale that means it can still beat nuclear? If not it's kind of irrelevant.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Germany to Rethink Nuclear Shutdown as Energy Crisis Deepens by toomuchtodo on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @01:31PM (#32155120)

How much cobalt is used in a PV panel? I believe that question leads you to the answer.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Germany to Rethink Nuclear Shutdown as Energy Crisis Deepens by SiempreViernes on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @11:36AM (#32153078)

Good luck even spelling the exotic metals you need for a nuclear power plant.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Germany to Rethink Nuclear Shutdown as Energy Crisis Deepens by dane-pgp on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @12:49PM (#32154475)

It's true that "dysprosium" is not as familiar an element as "nickel".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysprosium_titanate

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Germany to Rethink Nuclear Shutdown as Energy Crisis Deepens by jiveturkey42 on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @12:01PM (#32153616)

Swing and a miss, but thanks for trying

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Germany to Rethink Nuclear Shutdown as Energy Crisis Deepens by vjerancrnjak on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @11:17AM (#32152734)

China can't meet its own energy demands with its current pace of nuclear/coal plant production.

http://www.withouthotair.com/ provides a really good analysis of why nuclear must be included.

The energy demand can't be met with solar/wind alone.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Germany to Rethink Nuclear Shutdown as Energy Crisis Deepens by dane-pgp on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @01:04PM (#32154738)

That book was a helpful contribution to the debate when it was published in 2008, but by 2017 people were already pointing out[0] its obsolete assumptions about renewables, and there is now an open source collaborative effort to produce a more accurate and up-to-date version.[1]

I don't want to speak ill of the late great David MacKay, but it does seem that reality has exposed his pro-nuclear bias, which was already apparent[2] just from the choice of language he used when describing the different technologies.

[0] https://www.carboncommentary.com/blog/2017/3/30/l6qcqgoedse1...

[1] https://climate.lifeitself.us/without-hot-air/#why-this-proj...

[2] https://www.reddit.com/r/environment/comments/d1rwe/david_ma...

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Germany to Rethink Nuclear Shutdown as Energy Crisis Deepens by merb on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @02:31PM (#32155958)

btw. china will double their wind power since 2019 at the end of the year. they build the biggest hydro plant on the planet and will add a ton of new pv panels in 2022 (even more than the previous years).

china is just not stupid and will focus on a single technology. what they do with nuclear is probably less than 25% than what they will build with solar and wind, besides that they plan to build over 30 plants, which would probably end in a desaster in the eu or us.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Germany to Rethink Nuclear Shutdown as Energy Crisis Deepens by Gwypaas on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @03:04PM (#32156393)

Much less than 25%. The nuclear industry in China is about the minimal investment while still keeping the door open, if some incredible breakthrough magically appears.

https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/average-annua...

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Germany to Rethink Nuclear Shutdown as Energy Crisis Deepens by colonwqbang on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @11:49AM (#32153355)

> and nuclear just can't get built in under a decade

This is a tired argument. Ten years ago, the green movement was saying the same thing and in ten years, they'll be saying the same. It's always a good time to invest in green power, although it would have been even better to do it ten years ago.

[ Parent | on HN ]