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Re:What I learned trying to classify abortion access across ... by btilly on Monday July 18, 2022 @04:11PM (#32143031)
That isn't how amendments are made.

They have to pass Congress and the Senate with a 2/3 majority and then be ratified by 3/4 of the states.

Congress alone can't change the Consitution.

Re:What I learned trying to classify abortion access across ... by robotresearcher on Monday July 18, 2022 @05:59PM (#32144517)
Congress doesn't pass any laws by itself [1], so of course I wasn't claiming it changed the Constitution alone. But Congress did indeed pass the 14th Amendment.

[1] "In order to pass [ordinary] legislation and send it to the President for his or her signature, both the House and the Senate must pass the same bill by majority vote. If the President vetoes a bill, they may override his veto by passing the bill again in each chamber with at least two-thirds of each body voting in favor."

https://www.whitehouse.gov/about-the-white-house/our-governm...

Re:What I learned trying to classify abortion access across ... by btilly on Monday July 18, 2022 @07:11PM (#32145319)
You found the procedure for something completely unrelated.

The procedure for amendments is specified in https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/constitution/artic.... There are two procedures, only one of which has ever been used. In that procedure Congress *PROPOSES AN AMENDMENT* (with a 2/3 vote in both houses), then 3/4 of the states have to ratify it within 7 years. Also no involvement from the President is required.

Therefore Congress never passed the 14th amendment. It *PROPOSED* it. And the distinction is significant because Congress itself lacks authority to amend the Constitution.

Re:What I learned trying to classify abortion access across ... by robotresearcher on Monday July 18, 2022 @07:52PM (#32145685)
Your last message:

> Therefore Congress never passed the 14th amendment

Your previous message:

> [Amendments] have to pass Congress and the Senate

Which would be a contradiction given the existence of the 14th Amendment.

So it seems like you're able to use 'pass' in the general sense of formally approve/propose/support when it's a reasonable shorthand. Me too.

Re:What I learned trying to classify abortion access across ... by dragonwriter on Monday July 18, 2022 @07:56PM (#32145709)
> Congress doesn't pass any laws by itself

It does when it overrides a veto.

> But Congress did indeed pass the 14th Amendment.

No, it proposed it.

Re:What I learned trying to classify abortion access across ... by robotresearcher on Monday July 18, 2022 @10:45PM (#32146948)
Sure. I see the distinction. I stand corrected.

My point is unchanged: the legal position in effect from Roe until the Dobbs opinion was that the constitutional guarantee of personal liberty through the 14th Amendment would include abortion. Congress, being a party to the Constitution, had thus already spoken on the matter.

The new decision overturns that position.

Re:What I learned trying to classify abortion access across ... by dragonwriter on Monday July 18, 2022 @07:59PM (#32145742)
> They have to pass Congress and the Senate

The Senate is part of Congress.

You mean something like “they need to be proposed by the concurrence of 2/3 of both the House and Senate, or by a convention called for by the legislatures of 2/3 of the states.”