News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Google Chromebook outlawed in Danish public schools by jeffbee on Friday July 15, 2022 @04:26PM (#32112387)
I really don't see what the European endgame is here. They seem to be backing themselves into a corner where due to superficial regulations they will be forced to select from a smaller pool of smaller companies with worse internal controls, worse inside risk defenses, and worse production security practices than the larger, more established, and more sophisticated multinationals. They are doing this for "privacy" but the practical outcome is going to be that whatever data they were trying to defend will be more readily available to top-tier national adversaries (China, Russia, U.S. foreign intelligence), more prone to accidental revelation, more subject to rogue insider practices, and more exposed to smaller-scale intelligence agencies that just happen to share a European jurisdiction, like the notoriously ham-handed and overreaching German BND.
Re:Google Chromebook outlawed in Danish public schools by munk-a on Friday July 15, 2022 @04:31PM (#32112455)
If the nation of Switzerland was singlehandedly dying on the hill of privacy concerns while the whole world laughed and moved on I think your take would be the correct one - but Europe is a big economy and it has an immense amount of tech talent. SoCal may still be the Mecca of technology but Europe is no slouch - by taking a stand they are opening up a market for privacy conscious applications to thrive. In the best world Europe's actions will benefit us all in the long run and we might see a big player pivot to actually meaningfully adhere to the privacy concerns - in a less good world we'll probably see a fair amount of competition by small players within the Eurozone to provide the best software solutions while also respecting privacy.

I think it's a fair criticism to fear that the data may end up in the hands of well intentioned but poorly secured applications that cause larger leaks, but we've seen huge leaks in the US even from companies that exist solely due to the value of their data (i.e. Equifax).

Re:Google Chromebook outlawed in Danish public schools by jeffbee on Friday July 15, 2022 @04:46PM (#32112623)
You seem to be saying that it would be acceptable to impair real privacy in the present if it causes the growth of an indigenous European software/cloud industry. I can see the logic, but I don't really agree with it.

To me it seems like the smaller and more local your infrastructure becomes the worse the privacy story gets. Worst of all would be a completely bespoke infrastructure self-hosted by local authorities, where a handful of petty IT guys have complete access to everyone's data. Sure, it's against the law for them to access it, but they will do it anyway, because there are no internal controls nor effective audits.

Way on the other end of the risk scale is the idea that an American court will order Google to turn over the files of a Danish schoolchild to intelligence agencies. That's just a complete non-risk compared to the insider risks in the other scenario.

Re:Google Chromebook outlawed in Danish public schools by Hamcha on Friday July 15, 2022 @04:37PM (#32112523)
I think the big problem is that our regulations are too strict for US companies to comply to without breaking US laws. I have a feeling that if the US had insanely good privacy laws, EU probably wouldn't have too much issue delegating to US companies.

There is no winning scenario by continuing to use foreign products that are subjugated by foreign laws, so might as well try to get something done on the inside. That or declare privacy dead already and move to the next thing to lose control over.

Re:Google Chromebook outlawed in Danish public schools by FateOfNations on Monday July 18, 2022 @11:53PM (#32147352)
My understanding is that this isn't about "privacy" in the "evil corporation selling my data" sense, but specifically about US-based companies' obligation comply with search warrants for data that they have access to. An "insanely good privacy law" isn't going to fix it.

The thing that set it off was "a 2013 drug trafficking investigation, during which the FBI issued an [Stored Communications Act] warrant for emails that a U.S. citizen had stored on one of Microsoft's remote servers in Ireland, which Microsoft refused to provide." The US promptly changed the law to require US companies comply with search warrants, regardless of where the data is located. European Data Regulators have a big problem with this.

Re:Google Chromebook outlawed in Danish public schools by Gwypaas on Friday July 15, 2022 @05:32PM (#32113045)
That is already the case. There is a list of approved third countries where transfer of data is acceptable since they provide guarantees for that data in line with GDPR.

https://www.imy.se/en/organisations/data-protection/this-app...

Re:Google Chromebook outlawed in Danish public schools by johndhi on Friday July 15, 2022 @04:28PM (#32112414)
Interesting point. Perhaps true. Certainly their intent is to have their cake and eat it too, but you're probably right that isn't going to play out.

I think the problem is the complexity of running an international software business is getting harder and more complex and that is actually reducing security.

Re:Google Chromebook outlawed in Danish public schools by ocdtrekkie on Friday July 15, 2022 @04:42PM (#32112576)
Whew, this comment has a lot to unpack. Big Tech using "we're the best defense against scary scary China" is ridiculous, because at the end of the day, Big Tech is happy to play ball with China when it gives them money. (Even Google tried to go back until it became politically problematic, Microsoft and Apple both do business there.) And Big Tech copies all of the behavior we are afraid of from China: Endless surveillance, punishment with no chance of appeal, etc.

I would encourage anyone who has ever tried the "but China" defense for Big Tech to go back to the drawing board, and come up with something that isn't out of the Trumpist playbook.

Second: Europe has access to a robust collection of open source solutions that are also used by many of those same companies. You can absolutely create a managed experience working around the already tried-and-true Linux platform, and Windows is, of course, still perfectly serviceable if appropriately neutered by policy and a quality enterprise-class firewall.

Europe should absolutely be applauded for keeping their citizen's data increasingly in-house, particularly because we in the US have repeatedly failed to put Sundar Pichai and Mark Zuckerberg in the prison cells they so desperately belong in.

Re:Google Chromebook outlawed in Danish public schools by jeffbee on Friday July 15, 2022 @04:50PM (#32112671)
Insider risk is the #1 risk to data privacy and none of your "robust" open source pieces of junk has got any kind of insider protections. There's going to be some slob somewhere with an EFF sticker on his laptop and the root password who is leafing through your daughter's files looking for nudes because he's a "loli catcher" or some other form of pervert.

The risk model where American intelligence courts are the top line item is stupid.