News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Show HN: I built an app for when I talk too much in onlin... by kerblang on Thursday July 14, 2022 @02:59PM (#32100107)
Ever try asking people questions? Like, "Bob? What do you think of this? Would you ever use it?" No need to make excuses, just do it.

It's a leadership thing. Good leaders do that.

Re:Show HN: I built an app for when I talk too much in onlin... by akhmatova on Thursday July 14, 2022 @03:06PM (#32100215)
Like, "Bob? What do you think of this? Would you ever use it?"

It's actually kind of obnoxious to call on people like that. Even if it may seem like a "leadership thing" -- which may explain why it seems such a favored technique among wannabe alpha manger types.

I'm with the parent commenter: if people are in the flow (and give a shit), they'll definitely have something say (and your difficulty will be in getting them to keep it short). If they're not, and you're getting crickets -- it points to a deeper problem. That cannot be solved by, in effect, throwing chalk at people to get them to speak up.

Re:Show HN: I built an app for when I talk too much in onlin... by zucked on Thursday July 14, 2022 @04:10PM (#32100884)
My assumption is that if you're in the meeting, it has some adjacency to your work. This isn't about calling on the daydreaming kid in high school Spanish class who _has_ to be there to graduate. If you're in the meeting, it should be applicable to you and you should be ready to give some input; even saying something like "I'm not sure, need more info", or "don't have anything to add" is a valid and acceptable answer.

If the meeting isn't germane to your work, why are you in it?

I know people who do this because they're genuinely trying to get input from a broad set of people, some of whom will never speak unless they're asked directly. It doesn't have to be a mark of an alpha trying to beta everyone else.

Re:Show HN: I built an app for when I talk too much in onlin... by p_j_w on Thursday July 14, 2022 @04:47PM (#32101250)
>My assumption is that if you're in the meeting, it has some adjacency to your work.

This assumption does not match up with my experience.

>If the meeting isn't germane to your work, why are you in it?

I personally have gotten pretty good about declining meetings, but plenty of people aren't. Besides, I've been occasionally asked by my direct manager to attend a meeting that it turns out I wasn't actually needed at or remotely interested in for my work.

It would be nice to live in a world where meetings worked ideally and there weren't a bunch of people there wasting their own time, but that is sadly not the world we live in.

Re:Show HN: I built an app for when I talk too much in onlin... by zucked on Thursday July 14, 2022 @05:02PM (#32101416)
If it's not a meeting that you have any applicability to and someone asks for your input in the meeting, say so.

"Sorry, I don't see myself using this product/service/team - not because it isn't good, it just isn't relevant to what I'm responsible for/in charge of".

I feel like people treat meetings like this inescapable prison; once you're invited, you can never escape! It's bonkers. If you don't need to go to the meeting or don't have applicability… don't.

I work for a Fortune-listed company -- exactly the kind of place where attendee bloat thrives and I've never once had any manager or supervisor aggressively push back on my declines if they are valid.

Re:Show HN: I built an app for when I talk too much in onlin... by WastingMyTime89 on Thursday July 14, 2022 @04:40PM (#32101173)
But throwing chalk works. Don’t get me wrong I wish all the people I value the opinion of or need to get adhesion from were full of confidence and perfectly fine speaking in public. It would make my life easier. Sadly they are not so I sometimes have to push them in the swimming pool. Hopefully at some point they will realise they are perfectly able to swim. In the meantime, well, tough love it’s gonna be.
Re:Show HN: I built an app for when I talk too much in onlin... by ALittleLight on Thursday July 14, 2022 @04:51PM (#32101298)
I think throwing chalk could just be gaming metrics. If people are interested it shows that what's happening is valuable, they benefit from what's being presented or have input that the presenter needs and they want to get that across. What the organization should care about is not that people ask questions or give feedback, it should care that time is being used well. That is we know this meeting isn't a waste of time because people are interested active participants and if people just sit quietly and wait for thing to be over maybe it wasn't that useful.

When you force people to talk you are getting the metric (people asked questions) but because you are forcing it the metric becomes disconnected from what you actually care about - was this meeting a waste of time. You haven't actually improved things you've just obfuscated the problem.

Re:Show HN: I built an app for when I talk too much in onlin... by WastingMyTime89 on Thursday July 14, 2022 @07:20PM (#32102529)
I have worked with people who will just sit quietly and wait for things to be over even if they have questions just to not have to talk in a meeting and might ask them to you later if you are lucky.
Re:Show HN: I built an app for when I talk too much in onlin... by akhmatova on Thursday July 14, 2022 @09:29PM (#32103590)
It "works", but with negative side effects whose impact you seem to be underestimating the importance of. Meanwhile it's quite easy to encourage people to speak up more (and to take risks while doing so) via other, infinitely more decent and respectful means.
Re:Show HN: I built an app for when I talk too much in onlin... by t0mas88 on Thursday July 14, 2022 @04:30PM (#32101067)
It's a "leadership thing" because most good leaders have learned that it's useful to invite others to share their opinion before you do so yourself. Especially in more authority-style cultures, because you'll get better input that way. Then people aren't trying to just agree with whatever the person in a leadership role said.
Re:Show HN: I built an app for when I talk too much in onlin... by akhmatova on Thursday July 14, 2022 @10:48PM (#32104089)
The thing is there's a (not-so-subtle) difference between "inviting" people to speak and, in effect, forcing them to.
Re:Show HN: I built an app for when I talk too much in onlin... by tqi on Thursday July 14, 2022 @03:13PM (#32100308)
I think there is a nuance here, where this is only useful if you do the work to tailor it to that person. ie "Bob, I know your team has had [X] concern in the past. From the [Y] perspective, does this seem useful to you?"

The meta point being I don't think there are simple tricks or shortcuts to better participation.

Re:Show HN: I built an app for when I talk too much in onlin... by t0mas88 on Thursday July 14, 2022 @04:26PM (#32101019)
Sure that's nice. But what the post above suggested works fine as well, just pick someone that hasn't said anything yet and ask what they think.

Unless you invite totally irrelevant people to meetings, they should have some kind of view or feedback on whatever was just presented.

Re:Show HN: I built an app for when I talk too much in onlin... by nikau on Friday July 15, 2022 @09:42AM (#32108089)
Then poor Bob has to fumble to find the mute button and confess he hasn't paid attention to what you have been droning on about for the last 2 minutes and asks you to repeat the question.
Re:Show HN: I built an app for when I talk too much in onlin... by aloisdg on Thursday July 14, 2022 @03:05PM (#32100195)
Could it be seen as bullying?
Re:Show HN: I built an app for when I talk too much in onlin... by selykg on Thursday July 14, 2022 @03:21PM (#32100406)
If you're asking an expert in the area of what the topic is about, or stakeholders, or those that maybe have that topic in their circle of competence, then why would it be considered bullying? You'd expect them to have an opinion or some sort of feedback.

If you're asking someone who has literally nothing to do with that area of your work then, that's just kind of a weird situation. The key is tying the question to the area that is impacted by the person you're asking. It could be an open ended question and not even super specific.

Re:Show HN: I built an app for when I talk too much in onlin... by vanattab on Thursday July 14, 2022 @03:15PM (#32100336)
Really asking a colleague his/her opinion on work related decisions is potential bullying now?
Re:Show HN: I built an app for when I talk too much in onlin... by agentdrtran on Thursday July 14, 2022 @03:07PM (#32100221)
No, unless you're only doing it to one person or being a jerk about it.
Re:Show HN: I built an app for when I talk too much in onlin... by fruit2020 on Thursday July 14, 2022 @03:08PM (#32100235)
How so?