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Re:Volkswagen enters battery business with $20B investment by paganel on Thursday July 14, 2022 @02:08AM (#32092591)
> It is important to remember that we are currently extracting megatons of fossil

Extracting oil doesn't leave the total devastation behind it as extracting cobalt does [1]. A several orders of magnitude increase in that sort of abomination that I linked to doesn't have anything to do with "saving the planet", it's all politics and money. There's also the whole "child labor" thing [2] but let's assume that countries like Congo will sort it out sometimes in the next 10-20 years, they most probably won't, but there's always hope.

[1] https://www.aljazeera.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/2013-02...

[2] https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/dec/16/a...

Re:Volkswagen enters battery business with $20B investment by kriro on Thursday July 14, 2022 @06:45AM (#32094258)
Desulphurisation is required to turn the extracted oil into something that can be used in a car. That process requires cobalt. So yeah the dirty cobalt business is directly supported by oil-based cars as well. However, I think catalyst use vs. battery use of cobalt is roughly 1:5 so your point remains valid (it's used more in batteries than in desulphurisation). Unfortunately I cannot find free statistics to support this 1:5 ratio which is from memory, maybe someone else can supply a link.
Re:Volkswagen enters battery business with $20B investment by Maakuth on Thursday July 14, 2022 @08:38AM (#32095242)
1:5 in what? I mean if it takes five times the cobalt to manufacture a kilogram of battery compared to a kilogram of gasoline, that sounds like a point in favour of EVs. You can only use that gasoline once after all, whereas the lithium could serve the full vehicle lifetime.
Re:Volkswagen enters battery business with $20B investment by blopker on Thursday July 14, 2022 @02:27AM (#32092694)
I'm not going to defend the damage mining like this does, but it seems unfair to say oil is any better [0]. In my opinion, oil causes much more damage and is harder to contain.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oil_spills

Re:Volkswagen enters battery business with $20B investment by paganel on Thursday July 14, 2022 @03:27AM (#32093038)
I agree about harder to contain, that's why that oil pipeline that was supposed to pass through the middle of an industrialised country was cancelled [1], that was a political move by definition, while cobalt mines and the like, because they mostly "happen" in the middle of Africa, are just seen as "doesn't really affect me -> it isn't really that important".

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keystone_Pipeline#Phase_4_(can...

Re:Volkswagen enters battery business with $20B investment by adrianN on Thursday July 14, 2022 @03:20AM (#32092993)
Today, one of the major uses of Cobalt is removing sulfur from gasoline. Somehow that never comes up in the "child labor!!" arguments against electric cars.
Re:Volkswagen enters battery business with $20B investment by formerly_proven on Thursday July 14, 2022 @03:00AM (#32092868)
Re:Volkswagen enters battery business with $20B investment by paganel on Thursday July 14, 2022 @03:24AM (#32093015)
Yes, pit-mines are abominations, as are coal pit-mines. I was comparing cobalt mining with oil extraction.