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Re:Us crosses the electric-car tipping point for mass adoption by iamgopal on Monday July 11, 2022 @08:28AM (#32055237)
I hope people do not by two car once short range electric car gets cheaper. Electric for short commute and conventional for longer one.
Re:Us crosses the electric-car tipping point for mass adoption by bartvk on Monday July 11, 2022 @08:35AM (#32055314)
I wouldn't worry about that. My reasoning is as follows. Electric cars are usually very nice to drive, so people with an ICE and an EV soon discover that they barely use the ICE. And since cars deprecate, I expect they'll feel a definite incentive to drop the ICE.

Of course this is just my personal reasoning. Not supported by data.

Re:Us crosses the electric-car tipping point for mass adoption by ehnto on Monday July 11, 2022 @08:55AM (#32055548)
I agree, and I am an ICE diehard. I think EVs are the best way forward, but I will keep my ICE project car, I already have it after all, and use it for hobby motorsport.

The daily commuter can be electric. They are just more fit for purpose. I first drove a Nissan Leaf expecting the car to be gimmicky with weird driving characteristics, but it's a incredibly competent feeling car. You immediately notice how much better it is for city driving, in ways you didn't realise your ICE car was deficient in.

Re:Us crosses the electric-car tipping point for mass adoption by thrill on Monday July 11, 2022 @10:31AM (#32056674)
Indeed, when you have to stop at a gas station (for the not-yet-electricfied lawnmower) and it's been six months because you have an EV, you are suddenly shocked at how horrendous the smell of gasoline is.
Re:Us crosses the electric-car tipping point for mass adoption by ehnto on Wednesday July 13, 2022 @07:57AM (#32081451)
I am originally from a small farm town, less than 5000 people. I remember the first time I came into the city, how vividly the smells hit me. I still get it when I travel out of the city for a while and come back. Cities stink! But you acclimatize so quickly it doesn't matter.
Re:Us crosses the electric-car tipping point for mass adoption by thrill on Wednesday July 13, 2022 @11:46AM (#32084310)
The biology that evolved to tell you that something stinks likely has a positive correlation to how healthy it is for you (delicious stinky cheeses aside).
Re:Us crosses the electric-car tipping point for mass adoption by bertil on Monday July 11, 2022 @08:40AM (#32055372)
I actually imagine that electric cars will be even more compelling for long-range — not because batteries will become that much better, but because of a quirk from electric car manufacturers: they care about aerodynamic performance, a lot more than their ICE predecessors. They have to, because of where batteries are.

Because of that, they are now getting close to having cars that can rely on solar panels for some of their energy. It’s not there yet, but there are working prototypes (Aptera is the most inspiring but not the only one). Telsa mentioned a solar roof extension on what sounded like a camper van. Large trucks have a lot of surfaces and would definitely benefit too…

If you look at how much energy has to go in and out, a very conservative drive on a highway has less acceleration per hour, and fewer buildings hiding the sun. You could imagine that a very aerodynamic vehicle driven slowly for long distances would be able to stay charged longer than a gas car.

You might hit limits of human attention (I think we did that a long time ago) so it might not be as beneficial as frequent high-speed chargers, but all that innovation tells me there’s more than a short commute and a disappointing aesthetic to switching to electric.

Re:Us crosses the electric-car tipping point for mass adoption by spywaregorilla on Monday July 11, 2022 @08:59AM (#32055587)
Solar panels on car roofs just doesn't work. Trucks either. The surface area is small, the access to sunlight is hard to manage, the maintenance is funky, etc.
Re:Us crosses the electric-car tipping point for mass adoption by bertil on Monday July 11, 2022 @01:11PM (#32058812)
Re:Us crosses the electric-car tipping point for mass adoption by spywaregorilla on Monday July 11, 2022 @02:44PM (#32060044)
Are these supposed to be convincing examples of successful products?
Re:Us crosses the electric-car tipping point for mass adoption by rasz on Monday July 11, 2022 @02:33PM (#32059908)
No, no, and no. Aptera is a scam that went bankrupt twice now, and is owned by some Chinese company at this point. Every single EV with solar panels was either scam or a marketing gimmick.
Re:Us crosses the electric-car tipping point for mass adoption by mech987 on Monday July 11, 2022 @01:06PM (#32058765)
The amount of solar power hitting the surface of a car is much, much smaller than the power driving the wheels.
Re:Us crosses the electric-car tipping point for mass adoption by bbarnett on Monday July 11, 2022 @08:32AM (#32055275)
What a strange thought. Why on earth not? Many families have two cars, and having any electric car, over 2 gas cars, seems preferable, yes?
Re:Us crosses the electric-car tipping point for mass adoption by jeffbee on Monday July 11, 2022 @08:44AM (#32055413)
The remaining per-capita carbon budget to avoid > 1.5C climate change is 50 tons. Two new cars could easily consume that entire amount, even if never driven. Replacing the entire vehicle fleet with battery-electric cars is a bad enough idea, but replacing it with twice as many cars is truly unworkable.

Replacing your short-range transport needs with a bicycle, on the other hand, is a great idea.

Re:Us crosses the electric-car tipping point for mass adoption by ehnto on Monday July 11, 2022 @09:09AM (#32055655)
Per capita budgets don't make much sense to think about that literally I don't feel. We could all be good little beans and meet our individual climate targets and still get fucked by the industrial practices of the bare necessities. We need to materialize the cost of carbon, so that it's felt by industry. We also need to get a wriggle on with research of remediation. I am optimistic that we will pull through, but I don't think it will be because we met our prevention targets.
Re:Us crosses the electric-car tipping point for mass adoption by kcplate on Monday July 11, 2022 @09:36AM (#32055941)
> Replacing your short-range transport needs with a bicycle, on the other hand, is a great idea.

I don’t disagree, but not every area is what I would consider bicycle friendly. Especially in the US. Nearest grocery to me is 4 miles away. Certainly do able on a bicycle, but unfortunately in this area the roads are not super friendly for bicycles. I’d rather not be run over by a semi full of tomatoes, while going to buy some tomatoes.

Re:Us crosses the electric-car tipping point for mass adoption by bbarnett on Monday July 11, 2022 @10:43AM (#32056821)
It's so site specific, and people make stringent statements based upon their location.

It's not clever, or being insightful, or forward thinking, if it makes no sense.

Try getting groceries on a bike, at -40C and with ice and snow everywhere. Now try it as an octogenarian, or even as a 40 year old in those conditions.

Come on!

People need transportation 12 months a year, not 4 of them! A bike is absolutely, positively not a car replacement in many places, at all, ever, period.

My statment may seem harsh, but I keep seeing all these suggestions which show people only thinking of where they live.

Oh and the hilarious counter suggestion I've heard sometimes. "Don't live there then". What? OK, abandon Canada, and its ability to feed the world with wheat, rye, meat in its summer. Good call, that.

Re:Us crosses the electric-car tipping point for mass adoption by jeffbee on Monday July 11, 2022 @10:49AM (#32056904)
People are going to have to come to a point where they realize that their ridiculous libertarian fantasy of living to old age in a cabin surrounded by glaciers ten miles from anyone else is never going to work. There is no transportation solution to poor land use planning. The fact that this particular fantasy can't work is not an indictment of the bicycle, it is an indictment of the fantasy.

Civilized people live in little clumps called villages, towns, or cities, where the transportation problem is amortized by bringing essential goods such as food by truck to the center of the village where it is within walking distance of even the octogenarians.

I recently got so fed up with the meme that most people live far from other people that I made this visualization of where people live in California. The territory-weighted view of life is completely defective. The overwhelming majority of people live near other people. That some people live far from other people is not important for general commentary or policy. Those few people can do what they like and it's just not important enough to discuss. https://observablehq.com/@jwb/californians-from-oregon-to-me...

Re:Us crosses the electric-car tipping point for mass adoption by bbarnett on Monday July 11, 2022 @11:27AM (#32057398)
California's population is about the same size of Canada's, a country larger than the entire US.

While many people do live in cities, many live in, and outside cities, in rural areas.

Rural areas which support the farms you seem to like. Farms do not live in a vaccuum, and require an entire infrastructure of people working, and living in these areas, including schools, etc.

But outside of this, I noticed you completely glossed over climate as an issue, ignoring inclement weather for most of the year. Your map of warm California is irrelevant here, and does not discuss this.

Canada has very excellent urban planning, and often has grocery stores near by. That only helps at certain times of years, and only helps in dense areas.

This is part of the problem.

Electric cars are an awesome solution, yet what I see always is hard core environmentalists harming positive change. An electric car is far, far better than gas, yea? Is it?

Then holy hell, just drop the blather and embrace it, and be happy change is happening.

Get behind the positive.

We have vegetarians manipulating the climate crisis to get their way (no beef is not bad for the environment), we have the bike/anti-car side doing the same.

You want truth? Here's truth, and you saw it with all the covid political stupidity.

Push too far, and it backfires...

Re:Us crosses the electric-car tipping point for mass adoption by jeffbee on Monday July 11, 2022 @04:03PM (#32061057)
> Push too far, and it backfires...

Ah yes, it always ends in the implicit threat of violence with people like you. Look what you made me do!

Re:Us crosses the electric-car tipping point for mass adoption by bbarnett on Monday July 11, 2022 @05:20PM (#32062046)
Good grief. Reality is reality. And you mentioned violence, not I.

Push back can be an election which reverse years of progress. How do you think Trump got elected?! Pushback.

You want more of that?!? The US left and right... nutjobs one and all!

Re:Us crosses the electric-car tipping point for mass adoption by kcplate on Monday July 11, 2022 @06:17PM (#32062787)
People are going to have to come to a point where they realize that their urban fantasies that everyone wants to live stacked on top of other people just so they will be within walking distance of grocery stores is never going to happen.

They also have to realize that not everyone wants corporate box box stores in their backyards, which in the US is where grocery and household goods are bought.

They also should realize that sometimes desirable places to live can grow faster than infrastructure planning anticipated and nice things like bicycle paths and central shopping areas often aren’t often available that allow safe travel from where the homes are…to where the grocery stores are located by anything other than a care.

Re:Us crosses the electric-car tipping point for mass adoption by wbsss4412 on Monday July 11, 2022 @07:07PM (#32063335)
> They also have to realize that not everyone wants corporate box box stores in their backyards

Corporate box stores are literally a direct result of suburbanization, if you don’t like them then that’s a argument against the suburbs, not for them.

Re:Us crosses the electric-car tipping point for mass adoption by kcplate on Monday July 11, 2022 @08:12PM (#32063926)
I wasn’t arguing against them, I was suggesting that folks generally don’t want a 250k sq foot building operating 24 hours a day on a 7 acre patch right outside the back door.

That tends to be why developers avoid putting housing developments right beside them, it’s not really unreasonable IMO.

Re:Us crosses the electric-car tipping point for mass adoption by wbsss4412 on Monday July 11, 2022 @11:16PM (#32065150)
I get that, its just confusing why you’d connect that with urbanization. Urban environments tend not to have corporate megastores.

Your comment read to me like this “not everyone likes urban environments, people don’t want [insert thing indicative of the suburbs] right on top of them”

Urban places aren’t just more compact versions of the suburbs.

Re:Us crosses the electric-car tipping point for mass adoption by kcplate on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @12:48AM (#32065771)
I was not clear then. I was basically taking exception to the comment above that seemed to grip about the lack of walkability of suburban and rural communities and how they were not optimal communities. Some folks just don’t want urban (I don’t). Some folks want suburban (I do) and some folks want rural (not for me).

Suburban tends to be not generally walkable because grocery and retail tend to be on the outskirts and not city center. My comment about big box stores was meant to basically convey that they are not walkable or bicycle friendly because folks in suburban environments don’t want those giant stores that near their homes, but they don’t mind and actually prefer them to be 5-10 by car.

Some neighborhood developers drop quasi downtown main streets now with a few restaurants, boutique shops,etc…but these are not designed to sustain the community around it, but more as a neighborhood perk. Generally are nice enough that nearby homes are not devalued by close proximity the way a large retail or grocery store might be.

Re:Us crosses the electric-car tipping point for mass adoption by mech987 on Monday July 11, 2022 @01:10PM (#32058809)
I kinda feel like cars are a pretty good transportation solution to poor land use planning.
Re:Us crosses the electric-car tipping point for mass adoption by lambic on Monday July 11, 2022 @08:44AM (#32055419)
I think the OP is talking about single car households becoming two car households just to have one of each.

Fewer cars is better, electric or not.

Re:Us crosses the electric-car tipping point for mass adoption by pornel on Monday July 11, 2022 @11:15AM (#32057261)
Long range with fast-charging EVs isn't such a big deal. You have infinite range if you can do 20-30 minutes of charging per 2-3 hours of driving. If you're not doing a piss-in-a-bottle cannonball run, it's an entirely reasonable pace that you can adjust to.
Re:Us crosses the electric-car tipping point for mass adoption by bryanlarsen on Monday July 11, 2022 @11:23AM (#32057342)
We did a 3000km trip in an EV. We only spent 15 minutes total waiting on charging. All other charges were done during bathroom, eating or sleeping breaks.