News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:New MacBook Air with M2 by yosito on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @08:34AM (#31999876)
I'm excited to get my hands on one of these. I'm a US citizen living in Hungary, and hoping to get my hands on a US version ASAP. I'm debating if it will be easier to order from Apple in the US and ship it via a third party to the EU, or order in the EU and have the keyboard swapped out after I get it. I'm mostly nervous that if I don't order right away, it will be sold out and hard to get my hands on for a few more months. Hungary doesn't have any physical Apple stores and last time I checked, ordering directly from Apple to Hungary wasn't really possible without going through a partner.
Re:New MacBook Air with M2 by roywashere on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @08:41AM (#31999970)
In The Netherlands you typically will get US keyboards in your MacBooks. I think keyboards are not easily swappable but I might be mistaken? AFAIK in most European countries (at least in Germany) you can also order macs with US layout.

Ordering in EU is easier especially related to warranty. But the price is steep: it is 1199 USD in the US versus 1519EUR in The Netherlands, including sales tax

Re:New MacBook Air with M2 by em500 on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @10:47AM (#32001796)
No, it's not typical to get US keyboard Macs in NL. All physical stores (and most online stores) including Media Markt and the official Apple store only stock ISO layout.

Fortunately it's simple to order the ANSI (US) layout in the online Apple store these days. (US English, not International English!). Up to maybe 10 years ago or so it was pretty hard to get it with US keyboards in Europe. (I usually imported them from the US via eBay.)

Re:New MacBook Air with M2 by skohan on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @07:23PM (#32008132)
The warranty is really worth considering. I recently had to get a repair on an 18 month old laptop, and even though it was out of Apple warranty, the repair was free under consumer protection laws, and would not have been had I bought it in the US.

I'm honestly not sure why you would ever pay for an extended warranty in Germany.

Re:New MacBook Air with M2 by gfiorav on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @08:37AM (#31999911)
You can order Macs with US keyboard layouts from the country's Apple Store page. It'll take longer to ship is all.
Re:New MacBook Air with M2 by prawel on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @08:51AM (#32000099)
I always order Macbooks with US keyboards, as default European version with double-row Enter and ~ in the wrong place is unacceptable for me.
Re:New MacBook Air with M2 by sz4kerto on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @08:40AM (#31999946)
Just order it with US keyboard (that's what I've done -- CEE citizen living in CEE).
Re:New MacBook Air with M2 by ysleepy on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @08:39AM (#31999926)
Could get expensive. Past Macbooks hat a top chassis combo of keyboard, chassis and battery. At least the MacBook air battery replacement was only like 150€, including a new keyboard/top plate. Not sure it will be the same with the new design.
Re:New MacBook Air with M2 by gorbypark on Thursday July 07, 2022 @06:31AM (#32012212)
If you order from Apple in the EU (to a friends place for example) you get a choice of keyboards. Apple generally ships direct from China for online orders. I have a US keyboard Mac purchased in Spain.
Re:New MacBook Air with M2 by hans1729 on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @08:41AM (#31999957)
My m1 air with us layout was shipped to Germany from Poland within one month, right after M1s were released. The US-layout is faily common in the EU among programmers etc.
Re:New MacBook Air with M2 by balfirevic on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @08:36AM (#31999902)
What's the difference in keyboards?
Re:New MacBook Air with M2 by z9znz on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @10:32AM (#32001591)
This image illustrates the differences: https://appuals.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/1-11.jpg

The difference is that one keyboard is made for humans who touch type, and the other keyboard is made for people who like to lift up their hand and move it every time they want to hit return... or left shift.

The ones with the shorter left shift and narrower/taller return key are just bad designs. They make keys you use frequently less accessible, and the tradeoff is that keys you rarely use are now in reach.

Re:New MacBook Air with M2 by jeffhuys on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @11:01AM (#32002013)
I'm not in the US, so I'm kinda alone in this, and forgot to tell my work I wanted an international one, so I got an M1 pro from work with the international lay-out.

I've been using US layout since I was ~8. And all my other systems have the US layout. I am having such a hard time to get used to it.

I keep hitting ± when I mean ~ (why would I even need a ±/§ key on my keyboard?). I keep hitting \ when I want to hit Return. I keep hitting ~ when I want to hit shift.

Frustrating. Agreed with the "bad design" point.

Re:New MacBook Air with M2 by z9znz on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @11:11AM (#32002159)
I had this as well with a previous company work laptop, so I had to use a wireless external keyboard always. Using the built-in keyboard was so frustrating that it made me angry enough to almost destroy the laptop a few times.

It should be noted that on older Macbooks, the aluminum case has actual cutouts for keys. So it's not possible to change the layout of keyboard without also changing the case. I discovered this when I had my personal laptop repaired, and it came back with the wrong keyboard! The shop just instinctively ordered keyboard+case of their usual layout, so I had to have the whole thing redone again (at no extra charge, just a loss of time).

Re:New MacBook Air with M2 by tom_ on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @05:09PM (#32006859)
Well there must be at least 3 of us, because I'm another one. I've used the US layout ever since you could save something like 28 KBytes from not loading the UK layout, and I used this with UK keyboards for years. (Very useful having a backslash key for every hand.) Then at some point I acquired an actual US keyboard, and I was an immediate convert. I just really liked the fat Return key.

When I bought my first MBP, I wasn't completely wedded to the idea of getting a Mac necessarily - but when I noticed you could order one with a US keyboard, it tipped the balance in favour.

(For any serious work, I use a USB keyboard and mouse, so in a sense it doesn't really matter. But I use the built-in keyboard often enough that I'd be annoyed being stuck with that tiny Return key...)

(This reminded me: if you go to get a battery replacement, make sure the staff member notes that it's got a US keyboard. I took mine to a UK Apple store for a battery replacement a couple of years ago, and when I went to pick it up a few days later, it had had its keyboard replaced with a UK one! The staff member was very apologetic - perhaps they correctly read my expression of speechless shock after opening it - and it got fixed, but it took a couple more days. So in the end I was without my laptop for over a week.)

Re:New MacBook Air with M2 by balfirevic on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @11:07AM (#32002091)
That's interesting, the one I'm typing on right now seems to be a hybrid, longer left shift (which is indeed better) but tall enter (which I like because I like to just smack it from time to time).
Re:New MacBook Air with M2 by schroeding on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @08:41AM (#31999969)
European keyboards are often in the ISO layout, think large enter key and additional keys left of it

US keyboards have the narrow enter key and different placements for many symbols

Re:New MacBook Air with M2 by roywashere on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @08:43AM (#31999988)
Also in France and Germany you have funny stuff such as azerty and QWERTZ. And have you seen Spanish layout? Horrible for software development
Re:New MacBook Air with M2 by Tempest1981 on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @09:50AM (#32000860)
Re:New MacBook Air with M2 by garaetjjte on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @08:44AM (#32000002)
Some European countries (eg. Poland) typically use US layout.
Re:New MacBook Air with M2 by hans1729 on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @08:42AM (#31999980)
can't speak for op because I don't know what layout his country has. For Germany, vim is not usable beyond basic movements, because for example [ and ] have no dedicated keys. Typing { } on the default german layout is an insult to the typer. I remember a vim-shortcut that would have required to press five keys at the same time.
Re:New MacBook Air with M2 by balfirevic on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @09:06AM (#32000263)
But that's just about software keyboard layout, isn't it? I've been using US layout since forever (configured in OS), even though my keyboards have Croatian scribbles on some keys.

I do see now that the actual physical layout might be different, having large vs. small enter key and possibly additional key next to the left shift.

Re:New MacBook Air with M2 by jamesy0ung on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @08:50AM (#32000092)
ISO layout completely sucks, why would you want it?