Also, it strikes me as odd for you to defend all the progress made by your ancestors in bringing freedom to people, but not realizing that there is more that could be done. My "complaining and throwing names" about immigration law today would be equivalent to your ancestors complaining about them being exploited by some feudal lord.
More importantly, you don't realize that isolating people based on their country of origin (instead of their potential to contribute to society) is the opposite of progress.
You may think that Britain is one of the most progressive countries, but oddly it has been surpassed in many indicators of quality of life by Canada and Australia. These countries have far saner immigration policies. What's stopping your generation to try to bring this level of progress to Britain? The unwritten contract of "pay it forward" also applies to you, doesn't it?
I'm sorry if you feel offended by any of what I said, I just wish there was a way to disabuse the notion that "country of birth" is some valid parameter to assess an individual. It could have been true a couple of generations ago, but the world of today can (and should) get away from these physical barriers.
P.S: I just realized my bad wording on the original comment. I'm not in the US as an undocumented immigrant. I wanted to say that even being in the US with a H1B visa, I still will not get access to what I paid to Social Security.
If you gave every single person a choice over which social contract they could choose do you think they'd all be living in Iran, the Congo or the US? Do you think the US could cope with 5 or 6 billion people living there? Or Switzerland or whoever's topping the quality of life list atm.
You're calling people xenophobic because you want the US or the UK to suddenly turn into a meritocracy, but not a real one where we kick out the failures out and let more deserving in. No just the one where you get let in but most other people don't.
But you're not xenophobic or racist? Because it's based on a criteria of merit that you qualify for but the starving child in Africa doesn't.
Is that hypocrisy?
The world today can't get away from those physical barriers. There's not enough money in the world to pay for the UK's social security system for every person in the world. A worldwide NHS? A dream many years from being realised. There's not enough schools spaces in the world for every child. There's not enough houses or roads or cars or yachts or lear jets or iPhones or big screen TVs to go around.
We're nowhere near that point, not even vaguely close. There's not enough. And you're complaining that you've almost managed to break through to the top 5% but they won't let you be a full member of the club. And by Jove you deserve it, and the guy who got me riled in the first place deserves it because you say so. There's enough for you, but only if they let that magical door open a teeny-tiny bit more.
I was lucky in my birth, you were almost as lucky as you've obviously landed on your feet. You got opportunities denied to most of the world. I got, and probably wasted, more. But are either of us xenophobes for benefiting from that luck or wanting to keep that situation for ourselves and our families?
Step back and reflect, really reflect if your desire for this 'sane' immigration isn't totally selfish. Why are you deserving more than any other being on the planet? Because you ticked some boxes? Passed some exams? Dream of starting a business? And why should I even be allowed to stay in the UK?
>>If you gave every single person a choice (...) they'd all be living in Iran, the Congo or the US?
As if the only thing to factor in when choosing where to live is the "social contract". There are many people that are allowed to live in Canada and Australia, and yet they don't.
You'd be surprised by how averse to change most people are. Even in places where people have more opportunities to come and go, they still prefer to stay where they are over risking for better opportunities elsewhere. Not all Americans from flyover states want to move out, no matter how bad the environment might be. The same applies to Europeans in the EU, or South Americans in the Mercosul.
>> (...) There's not enough money in the world to pay for the UK's social security system for every person in the world(...)
I can see that we hold many different values about other things, and these might be contaminating the main topic of discussion. I don't want "government benefits". What I want is "free flow of people and services, so that they don't grow up to be dependent on these government benefits in the first place".
>> Why are you deserving more than any other being on the planet?
I am not more deserving to anything, neither I am any less deserving to anything.
>> And why should I even be allowed to stay in the UK?
Why shouldn't you? Are you dangerous? Are you denying someone to their freedoms? It doesn't seem to be the case.
In my value system, you should be allowed to stay anywhere where your presence (or your actions) do not cause direct harm to society. In yours, the country of origin takes precedence over the individual.
Don't ever call someone you don't know a xenophobe, you know absolutely nothing about me. I fear UK white trash more than I ever have johnny foreigner.
To be clear, I'd be deeply hurt and insulted by this, but you don't actually seem to know what it means.
From the BBC:
The unemployment total for 16-24 year olds hit a record high of 991,000 in the quarter, a jobless rate of 21.3%.
They are the ones our government should be caring about, not you. Sorry. It's just that there aren't enough opportunities to go around and in the end a Government should be helping its citizens, not someone else's.
That's the point of them.
The original comment I replied to is calling his hosts vile names, as you are, just because you can't get that you're not entitled to anything in this world. You've been given an opportunity in this country and just because our citizens are naturally prioritized over you, why are you complaining and throwing names?
My point about taxes is that your parents didn't pay any. Do you think all this infrastructure appeared yesterday? All this case law was invented last week? That the freedoms afforded were given willingly by kings or queens? It's all been invested in generation to generation. All those unemployed kids? Their parents worked here, paying towards a future for their children. An unwritten contract of pay it forward. Go back a generation or two and you find parents dying, blood, fear, struggle to give their children and their childrens children this opportunity. To ask the Government to give the same opportunities to someone who just turned up is naive at best.
Calling them racists or xenophobes? Total lies and totally out of order. Britain is a liberal and tolerant country compared to many I've been to. There are bad eggs, no denying that, but we're one of the most progressive countries in the world.
I fully admit our forefathers are to thank for this and I feel very lucky to have had the random luck to have been born here, but on the other hand your totally unrealistic sense of entitlement doesn't make everyone else a xenophobe or a racist.
Xenophobia and racism are specific, vile states of mind. Every country in the world prioritizes their citizens. Twisting those words to mean that is, frankly, pathetic.