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Re:Modern city dwellers have lost about half their gut microbes by tompccs on Thursday June 30, 2022 @07:32PM (#31940102)
I'd put microbiome research high up on my list of things which will turn out to be junk science in a few years. A lot of the actual numbers in this are pretty tenuous. Primates have 80 species of bacteria and city dwellers have 50? Wow, stop the presses.

A few years ago the fashionable thing was colonic irrigation (see https://journals.lww.com/ajg/fulltext/2009/11000/clinical_ef...). Now it just seems the pendulum has swung the other way and we need more crap in our colons, not less.

We're looking for reasons why we feel sick all the time but the reality is beyond basic things like being too fat and too sedentary, we are healthier than ever, and many many people had wretched miserable lives of chronic pain before modernity. The expectation of health is a modern conceit and this research is just a reflection of the constant anxiety that there is something wrong with us all - a cultural hypochondria.

Re:Modern city dwellers have lost about half their gut microbes by corrral on Thursday June 30, 2022 @07:38PM (#31940162)
> We're looking for reasons why we feel sick all the time but the reality is beyond basic things like being too fat and too sedentary, we are healthier than ever, and many many people had wretched miserable lives of chronic pain before modernity. The expectation of health is a modern conceit and this research is just a reflection of the constant anxiety that there is something wrong with us all - a cultural hypochondria.

Truly, "eat less trash; eat more veggies; eat less total; and move around at least an hour a day" is such good advice for most of us in "the West" that following it somewhat well would provide 100x more benefit than the next-closest thing. Plastic additives? Gut microbes? Fructose versus sucrose? Balance of omega fatty acids? Specific exercise routines? Forget all that unless you're already eating really well and staying active daily, which very few of us are.

When I read articles about these kinds of things and start to get the urge to act on them, I try to remind myself that I should go do a few squats or walk around the block a couple times instead.

Re:Modern city dwellers have lost about half their gut microbes by throwaway202022 on Thursday June 30, 2022 @09:01PM (#31940809)
> We're looking for reasons why we feel sick all the time but the reality is beyond basic things like being too fat and too sedentary, we are healthier than ever, and many many people had wretched miserable lives of chronic pain before modernity. The expectation of health is a modern conceit and this research is just a reflection of the constant anxiety that there is something wrong with us all - a cultural hypochondria.

Aside from things like infectious diseases, we're not healthier than ever. We have better medicine than ever, but disease states that were once rarities have become commonplace in our modern world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifestyle_disease

By the way, these are diseases which cannot all be blamed on "being too fat and too sedentary", as even skinny people can develop type 2 diabetes. Unheard of centuries ago.

Re:Modern city dwellers have lost about half their gut microbes by wizofaus on Thursday June 30, 2022 @09:07PM (#31940843)
This is true, but lifestyle diseases are somewhat easier to avoid than infectious diseases (plus all the various other things that could easily kill you in your first decade or so in bygone eras). I'd almost say lifestyle diseases seem to be, to a large degree, a choice - maybe not directly, but as a society we accept that if we want to enjoy all the privileges of modern technology and food availability etc., then we pay for it with heart disease or diabetes or certain cancers etc.
Re:Modern city dwellers have lost about half their gut microbes by throwaway202022 on Thursday June 30, 2022 @09:15PM (#31940920)
> I'd almost say lifestyle diseases seem to be, to a large degree, a choice - maybe not directly, but as a society we accept that if we want to enjoy all the privileges of modern technology and food availability etc., then we pay for it with heart disease or diabetes or certain cancers etc.

It's a choice for many, but I think it's not a fully informed one. If I'd known in my teens and early twenties what I know now, there is a zero percent chance I would have eaten and lived the way that I did. These things don't seem to hit people until the point that their personal health is affected, and sometimes not even then.

Re:Modern city dwellers have lost about half their gut microbes by wizofaus on Thursday June 30, 2022 @09:20PM (#31940953)
Seems to me the same way we treat environmental damage, though in that case most of the suffering will fall on our kids and grandkids. But even the choices young adults are making today aren't really compatible with having a decent planet to live on in 60 years or so, barring some technological miracles.
Re:Modern city dwellers have lost about half their gut microbes by actually_a_dog on Thursday June 30, 2022 @07:36PM (#31940144)
Given that the ratio of bacterial to human cells in a typical human is about 1:1, I'd wager you're wrong on that. This sounds rather like a "shallow dismissal" that buts up against the gudelines here, as well.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4991899/

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:Modern city dwellers have lost about half their gut microbes by dhzhzjsbevs on Thursday June 30, 2022 @07:37PM (#31940150)
I'll take that bet.

I think we're going to find the opposite in a few years.