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Re:Belief in AI sentience is becoming a problem by jqpabc123 on Thursday June 30, 2022 @12:06PM (#31934546)
Would a simulation of full human brain on a computer be conscious? Uhh, I guess so?

The biggest fallacy in thinking about consciousness is that it is all neatly isolated in the brain. What about your nervous system? What about your gut? It's all one big interconnected system.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/the-g...

The truth is, until we can define consciousness; we can't possibly reproduce it on a binary logic playback device (aka a "computer").

Re:Belief in AI sentience is becoming a problem by vidarh on Thursday June 30, 2022 @12:24PM (#31934833)
I think including other parts of the body is the least of the problems. The bigger problem is that we don't understand how close to the structure of the brain (+ nervous system and gut and anything else contributing) we need to get for the simulated system to have a subjective experience of consciousness. E.g. is it enough to run a simulation on a normal computer? Does it need to process information at a certain rate to sustain this process? Is a certain physical structure of the simulating machinery required?

I don't agree we necessarily will be unable to reproduce it without being able to define consciousness, though, but I suspect we would agree that we won't be able to know if we have reproduced it or just created something very good at acting as if it's conscious (and we don't know whether or not the two are equivalent).

Re:Belief in AI sentience is becoming a problem by kelseyfrog on Thursday June 30, 2022 @12:30PM (#31934934)
We'll never be able to define consciousness, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

The sooner we realize that consciousness is a slippery socially concept and not a rationally definable property, the sooner we'll be able to move on from endless debates on the minutia of consciousness that act as a bottomless sink of intellectual energy. Devices like LaMDA, and DALLE-2 act as a Rorschach of Consciousness. That is to say they tell us more about the people people interacting with them than the devices themselves.

We already have such social machinery operating in the form of sex, gender, race, class, ability, &c. They each can take the form of acting as a frame[1] in which a strip of events can be interpreted with respect to. Even so, each has a different means in who acts an authority in the conferred frame/applied status and there is disagreement in descriptive and normative aspects of each. But I'd ask this, this that genuinely a problem?

I'm not being rhetorical when I ask, functionally what's the issue? Besides invoking a visceral intellectual response, what are the second-order effects of having a plurality of consciousness framing processes? And are they necessarily bad?

1. In the Goffmanian sense.

Re:Belief in AI sentience is becoming a problem by jqpabc123 on Thursday June 30, 2022 @04:06PM (#31937871)
what are the second-order effects of having a plurality of consciousness framing processes

The primary effect I would expect is that none of them will adequately frame the layperson's expectation of "consciousness" and will thus likely be dismissed as meaningless hype.

Re:Belief in AI sentience is becoming a problem by kelseyfrog on Thursday June 30, 2022 @04:19PM (#31938021)
In some ways that's where we're at today in online discussions. There are additionally legal, political, financial, and social repercussions which we should be on the lookout for if indeed a faction of AI-is-conscious proponents begins to coagulate around the idea.
Re:Belief in AI sentience is becoming a problem by JohnPrine on Thursday June 30, 2022 @05:26PM (#31938837)
> The truth is, until we can define consciousness; we can't possibly reproduce it on a binary logic playback device (aka a "computer").

There's nothing stopping us from reproducing consciousness before we fully understand it. Evolution created consciousness via random search; I don't think you can argue that evolution "understands" the consciousness it created

Re:Belief in AI sentience is becoming a problem by jqpabc123 on Friday July 01, 2022 @08:18AM (#31945394)
There's nothing stopping us from reproducing consciousness before we fully understand it.

Except for the fact that this "belief" that has never been achieved. This is the core tenant of the AI religion.

Can you show me one problem that a computer has ever solved without detailed understanding by someone at some level and very specific instructions and a clear logical definition of the objective?

What is commonly called AI is no exception. It's mostly statistical search and pattern matching that only occurs through specific instructions by someone who understands in detail how the search should be organized and conducted.

In order for a computer to search for "consciousness", it must be explicitedly defined in terms of binary logic because this is all a "computer" understands. Any results are logically bound to this definition. If your definition is lacking, the search results will be likewise.