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Re:DevOps is a failure by Sebb767 on Sunday June 26, 2022 @05:30PM (#31888192)
> The way to do DevOps is to fire all of the Ops and then tell all of the Devs that they are now doing DevOps

That's like saying "agile is firing your scrum masters and tell your developers you're agile now".

The idea behind DevOps is that applications are provisioned by the people who know the application best, the developers. If everything works out as it should, this gives additional load with creating the deployments, but also removes the overhead when dealing with operations when deploying, updating and debugging - so a net zero in workload, but a gain in the way the application is hosted better and fixing bugs is easier. You still need operations, both for providing the underlying platform (getting a server ready is not a developers core business and it shouldn't be) and for guiding the developers. It should be leaner, but you still need it.

Of course, you can also fire all of infra and tell the developers "that's your job now", but that's like calling biweekly deadlines scrum (and leads to equally bad outcomes).

Re:DevOps is a failure by civilized on Sunday June 26, 2022 @06:01PM (#31888504)
> That's like saying "agile is firing your scrum masters and tell your developers you're agile now".

This would be an excellent idea in many teams.

Re:DevOps is a failure by Sebb767 on Sunday June 26, 2022 @06:42PM (#31888812)
Yes - and it's also true for many DevOps people. Some would argue that's even true for many managers. It's just not a good idea if you want to get where these people where supposed to get you when you hired them.
Re:DevOps is a failure by jen20 on Monday June 27, 2022 @08:28AM (#31893589)
I’d say that is absolutely untrue in the case of agile.

Those promoting scrum (and especially those with certifications in it) are going to lead to scrum, not an agile process that values producing useful, working software each iteration.