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Re:Tell HN: Coinbase now requires physical address of recipi... by rglullis on Friday June 24, 2022 @08:06AM (#31860529)
> Because that's what I use to buy stuff.

For now, for lack of competitive alternatives.

I'm not even saying that you will be buying everything with crypto in the coming years. But I do see a future where it can be more secure and more practical to buy some things with crypto: digital goods, concert tickets, service subscriptions... put all of these things together and suddenly we will find ourselves with a crypto wallet making transactions worth a few hundred dollars every month.

Re:Tell HN: Coinbase now requires physical address of recipi... by ALittleLight on Friday June 24, 2022 @08:20AM (#31860665)
I'm always amazed at how many years into the future crypto enthusiasts are willing to wait for the basic use case of their product to be practical. "Sure, you can't use this currency for day to day transactions, and it's incredibly volatile and risky to hold significant amounts of it, but one day, by magic one assumes, it might be useful!"
Re:Tell HN: Coinbase now requires physical address of recipi... by kloch on Friday June 24, 2022 @09:30AM (#31861494)
It took many thousands of years to switch from gold/silver money to paper (fiat) money. It was tried many times and failed each time until the US succeeded in the 20th century. Even that final transition took 38 years to complete from 1933-1971 despite the US having the power of both nuclear weapons and the world's reserve currency after 1945.

The transition from paper fiat dollars to electronic (credit/debit cards and later NFC apps) for ordinary everyday payments which began in ernest ~1990* is still not complete (30+ years). This is despite the fact that it is only a different method of payment, not a change in monetary system like gold/silver -> fiat was.

Why would anyone expect a transition from fiat (paper and/or electronic) money to crypto to only take 10 years?

* one of the places I worked in high school in 1988 was People's Drug (CVS). While we did have the primitive early electronic swipe terminals for credit cards, they were only used by the cashier for pre-authorizations (replacing the earlier method of calling an 800 number). The pre-auth step could take several minutes. We then had to imprint the card on carbon paper vouchers with the mechanical "click-clack" machines and write down various information on the vouchers with ballpoint pens. Fortunately very few customers used credit cards due to this long tedious process. Payment by check wasn't much faster as we had to write down driver's license number and address on the check by hand.

In 1990 or so the first gas stations started to accept payments at the pump. Before that you had to walk inside and pay with paper money or the old slow mechanical credit card method or checks. For the first few years they only accepted debit cards at the pump, not credit. A few grocery stores started accepting debit cards around the same time as the gas stations.

Re:Tell HN: Coinbase now requires physical address of recipi... by ALittleLight on Friday June 24, 2022 @09:46AM (#31861729)
If this comment means "the current transition to crypto is likely to fail" then we agree.
Re:Tell HN: Coinbase now requires physical address of recipi... by kloch on Friday June 24, 2022 @10:41AM (#31862719)
Many central banks including the Fed are looking into CBDC's. While not quite the same as the distributed consensus based algorithm of Bitcoin, there are too many benefits to governments/central banks to ignore the technology.

The question is not whether cryptographically secured algorithmic money will be a part of future monetary systems but who will control the algorithm and/or how will different systems compete with each other.

Re:Tell HN: Coinbase now requires physical address of recipi... by rglullis on Friday June 24, 2022 @08:42AM (#31860885)
Don't be discouraged if what you produce initially is something other people dismiss as a toy. In fact, that's a good sign. That's probably why everyone else has been overlooking the idea. The first microcomputers were dismissed as toys. And the first planes, and the first cars. At this point, when someone comes to us with something that users like but that we could envision forum trolls dismissing as a toy, it makes us especially likely to invest.

(http://www.paulgraham.com/organic.html)

> you can't use this currency for day to day transactions

Not with this attitude, you can't. ;)

What currency is "this"? BTC, ETH, Doge, USDC, DAI?

> incredibly volatile

How volatile is USDC, DAI, GUSD?

> risky to hold significant amounts of it

It's also risky to walk around with significant amounts of cash in the wallet. It doesn't stop people from wanting to carry some money around. And more importantly, the alternative of "going cashless" is a whole other set of systemic risks.

> it might be useful!

The use cases exist already. Micropayments and streaming transfers (as an alternative for subscriptions) using stable currencies are already possible. If you don't care about it, it's a different story.

Re:Tell HN: Coinbase now requires physical address of recipi... by ALittleLight on Friday June 24, 2022 @09:50AM (#31861782)
I'm not dismissing crypto as a toy. Most cryptos are Ponzi Schemes. BTC and ETH I'm dismissing as not practical.
Re:Tell HN: Coinbase now requires physical address of recipi... by gfodor on Friday June 24, 2022 @10:15AM (#31862196)
The part where you moved BTC and ETH from the 'ponzi' slot to the 'not practical' slot will continue for other elements. BTC will slide into the next slot soon probably, going from 'not practical' to 'practical for a very narrow set of things that aren't the set of things people originally expected.' So it goes.
Re:Tell HN: Coinbase now requires physical address of recipi... by rglullis on Friday June 24, 2022 @09:52AM (#31861823)
For the purposes of an application, calling it "not practical" is the same as calling it a "toy".
Re:Tell HN: Coinbase now requires physical address of recipi... by burnished on Friday June 24, 2022 @01:26PM (#31866134)
Eeeeh? I think not. A toy implies that is has no, or cannot have, practical uses and is a property of the object or idea. Not practical is an engineering problem, it is contingent on external factors. A fidget spinner is a toy, a space elevator is not practical.

They are both ways to dismiss an idea though.

Re:Tell HN: Coinbase now requires physical address of recipi... by shkkmo on Friday June 24, 2022 @09:21AM (#31861347)
> Don't be discouraged if what you produce initially is something other people dismiss as a toy.

You could make that argument 10 years ago. It's been plenty long enough to find a use case that isn't breaking laws.

Re:Tell HN: Coinbase now requires physical address of recipi... by rglullis on Friday June 24, 2022 @09:35AM (#31861566)
> It's been plenty long enough to find a use case that isn't breaking laws.

It's impressive... Like clockwork, there will always be one coming to throw the "only use-case is illegal stuff!" line. It's like people can't wait to throw their opinions about a topic while displaying their complete ignorance of it.

Tell me how you can do the use-case for Brave - ie, sharing revenue from the ads with millions of users from anywhere in the world - within the traditional payment networks.

You can't. There is no Paypal or any other financial institution interested in making monthly transactions that can go as low as a few dollar cents. And somehow Brave does it, legally, and it all works out.

Re:Tell HN: Coinbase now requires physical address of recipi... by shkkmo on Friday June 24, 2022 @10:24AM (#31862357)
> Tell me how you can do the use-case for Brave - ie, sharing revenue from the ads with millions of users from anywhere in the world - within the traditional payment networks

Brave collects money from advertisers, Brave sends money to sites and users. Nothing in that requires any sort of blockchain. If the monthly amounts are so small as to make flat transaction costs significant, then the amounts are themselves insignificant. None of this requires a decentralized trustless ledger.

Re:Tell HN: Coinbase now requires physical address of recipi... by rglullis on Friday June 24, 2022 @10:57AM (#31863121)
> If the monthly amounts are so small as to make flat transaction costs significant, then the amounts are themselves insignificant.

That is the hole in your argument. Imagine the amount of business opportunities if the total cost of a transaction was a fraction of a cent.

> None of this requires a decentralized trustless ledger.

That is an implementation detail. If you find any other method to securely send value across the world for fractions of a cent (even if with intermediaries), I'm all for it.

Re:Tell HN: Coinbase now requires physical address of recipi... by ohgodplsno on Friday June 24, 2022 @09:43AM (#31861669)
Quoting Paul Graham simply makes you look as incompetent as he is, watch out.
Re:Tell HN: Coinbase now requires physical address of recipi... by rglullis on Friday June 24, 2022 @09:48AM (#31861754)
Of all the insults you could throw at PG as an attempt to make an ad-hominem, are you really going to stick with incompetent?
Re:Tell HN: Coinbase now requires physical address of recipi... by ohgodplsno on Friday June 24, 2022 @09:53AM (#31861831)
I could also go with full of himself, pompous, pretentious, more-boring-than-a-slatestarcodex-post-at-3AM-without-drugs, but incompetent is a good recap for a man whose career can be resumed as "got lucky during the dot com boom and has been riding that money ever since"
Re:Tell HN: Coinbase now requires physical address of recipi... by ALittleLight on Friday June 24, 2022 @10:00AM (#31861923)
Paul Graham is a successful entrepreneur, investor, and essayist. He's done multiple things which have a global impact - YC and HN for example. He's made a billion plus dollars for himself. Calling him "incompetent" is, objectively, wrong.
Re:Tell HN: Coinbase now requires physical address of recipi... by ohgodplsno on Friday June 24, 2022 @10:09AM (#31862096)
And we all wished that he skipped the essays part, because it's a bunch of self centered bullshit from a man who got rich and had an easy life.

YC is not a miracle product. The man had money and said "Hey I'm going to give it to higher risk companies to get some money back". It takes zero ability. Venture capital has existed for centuries. He's a glorified bank, except my bank doesn't put out pompous essays on their blog at least.

HN, aside from being a great purveyor of laughably inaccurate comments does not nearly have the global impact you think it has. It's the laughing stock of most of the tech internet. But at least sometimes the links posted are good.

Re:Tell HN: Coinbase now requires physical address of recipi... by rglullis on Friday June 24, 2022 @09:59AM (#31861895)
And creating YC after and completely changing the nature of venture capital, that doesn't count as well. Right?

Anyway, I'd be eager to hear all the amazing achievements from Mr. ohgodplsno. You must be very fun at parties.

Re:Tell HN: Coinbase now requires physical address of recipi... by ohgodplsno on Friday June 24, 2022 @10:06AM (#31862032)
You're damn right, I'm fucking hilarious at parties. But maybe not the ones where it's just a bunch of VC bros.

Once again, you said it yourself. His accomplishments are "he made money" and "he found ways to give money". Let's not mention the fact that YC has funded many extremely dubious companies and that _giving money isn't work_. Had PG not been here, someone else would have had that money, and would have given it to startups. He's a glorified (quite bad) essayist with money.

Re:Tell HN: Coinbase now requires physical address of recipi... by rglullis on Friday June 24, 2022 @10:13AM (#31862167)
I am not into VC parties either, and I have no intention of budding with anyone into the Silicon Valley life.

Anyway, I've heard lots of PG critics, and some of them I even say I'd admire because they actually did something of interest and according to their values. But you? You haven't shown anything of value that you can do. Let me repeat: I'd love to know more about your accomplishments.

Re:Tell HN: Coinbase now requires physical address of recipi... by ohgodplsno on Friday June 24, 2022 @02:14PM (#31866951)
My man, I am not looking for your admiration. And I'm not looking to make you an admirer either. Worship your billionaires all you want, and I have nothing to prove to you.

But if anything, you just keep proving that you might just have a talent for egregiously mind numbing, self absorbed essays just like PG

Re:Tell HN: Coinbase now requires physical address of recipi... by ALittleLight on Friday June 24, 2022 @09:50AM (#31861786)
Paul Graham is incompetent??
Re:Tell HN: Coinbase now requires physical address of recipi... by burnished on Friday June 24, 2022 @01:08PM (#31865826)
Eeeeh, a lot of stuff we think of as being normal or obvious took a really long time to develop into something useful, so I don't know if "early adopters excited about technology well before it becomes useful or even has a clear use" is really the strongest point you can make. Especially on a tech centered forum right?