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Re:Consciousness is not computation by i_like_apis on Thursday June 23, 2022 @07:30PM (#31856361)
> You didn't "show" it; you simply asserted it.

You're not understanding what I said. Last time:

Turing Machines have a specific set of necessary ingredients.

That's not a "bald assertion" or an "appeal to authority". It's an observation about the theory of Turing machines [1].

Whether or not a physical system has those ingredients is an _objective_ matter.

Also an observation. In case you need to think it through, there was a simple argument which you cannot rationally refute:

i) If one of the ingredients is missing, "subjectively" wishing something is a Turing Machine will not make it so.

ii) If all the ingredients are present, "subjectively" wishing that something isn't a Turing Machine will not change the fact that it is.

Conclusion: subjectivity has no effect on whether something is or is not a Turing machine. QED.

----

You're the one making unsupported assertions and talking in circles.

I can see that you're going to reply with more disagreement. Please imagine that my response is "I said good day sir!"

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_machine#Description

Re:Consciousness is not computation by denton-scratch on Sunday June 26, 2022 @01:17PM (#31885803)
> Please imagine that my response is "I said good day sir!"

That sounds a lot like "Anyway, why do I think I have time for this ... "

It's clear to me that "stuff" can be arranged to work as a Turing Machine (or some other kind of computer) without design or intent. Whether it is such a thing or not depends on how it is used; a Turing Machine that is given random inputs, or whose outputs don't mean anything to anyone, is a computer only in a formal sense. If nobody knows that some thing is a computer, I'm not sure that it's computer-ness is meaningful.

So that's why I think intent and interpretation are relevant.