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Re:Copilot sells code other people wrote by monocasa on Thursday June 23, 2022 @02:49PM (#31853551)
The issue is that whether the free software people want it or not, the copyright system over code exists, and historically has been used as a cudgel against smaller players. If we got rid of copyright over code entirely I'd totally be down for this. And IIRC RMS has said the same thing; that he'd be in favor of the removal of copyright over code as a concept even if it meant neutering the protections of the GPL.

Until that happens, and copyright protections are still used by larger entities, using the same system to protect yourself and (more importantly) your users isn't turning your back on your ideals, but instead simply adjusting your strategy to the current material conditions. Remember that Google v. Oracle (while ultimately a win versus what could have been) was a step back, with de minimis claims left on the table as not a valid defense. The play field is heavily slanted towards the big players and software freedom requires every tool it can put it's hands on at the moment.

Re:Copilot sells code other people wrote by zzo38computer on Thursday June 23, 2022 @05:24PM (#31855337)
> The issue is that whether the free software people want it or not, the copyright system over code exists, and historically has been used as a cudgel against smaller players. If we got rid of copyright over code entirely I'd totally be down for this. And IIRC RMS has said the same thing; that he'd be in favor of the removal of copyright over code as a concept even if it meant neutering the protections of the GPL.

As someone else asked, I would also want a citation, but I agree.

Actually, I want a license that you can do pretty much anything you want to do with it (including: lack of attribution, distribution without source codes, distribution with source codes (whether they are the original source codes or reconstructed), lack of copyright notices, reverse engineering, circumvention of your own copy and write reports about anything you want to do, to use or not use the software (and to modify or not modify) at your choice, etc), but that you are not allowed to add further legal restrictions to it (with a few exceptions dealing with trademarks (but not all) and allowing conversion to GNU (A)GPL 3 and CC-BY-SA 4.0 if you are able to satisfy the conditions of those licenses) or to derivative works, and that if someone will try to use legal processes against you relating to this, then anyone can countersue.

Re:Copilot sells code other people wrote by Guid_NewGuid on Thursday June 23, 2022 @03:31PM (#31854115)
Interesting that he's said that, I wasn't aware.

I think at its root the problem is copyleft is a mirror image of copyright. It relies on and replicates all the cultural and legal requirements and constraints of the copyright model and curtails an imagining of other possibilities. Every sentence or thought spent on copyleft is misdirected in my view.

Which is why I find Microsoft doing this (potential) en-masse license violation and then a bunch of GPL folks getting mad pretty funny overall. I just find the high and mighty tone annoying, like sure, they've (allegedly) screwed you, but they're going to (theoretically) get away with it because they're rich and powerful, sorry that didn't turn out how you wanted.

Re:Copilot sells code other people wrote by Kbelicius on Thursday June 23, 2022 @03:58PM (#31854414)
>I think at its root the problem is copyleft is a mirror image of copyright.

That is the (only)point of copyleft. If it weren't for copyright it wouldn't exist. Fight fire with fire, that sort of thing.

Re:Copilot sells code other people wrote by rcxdude on Thursday June 23, 2022 @07:24PM (#31856324)
I don't think that's true: copyleft is right to repair for software. Even if the software is not copyrightable without the source code users are still relatively powerless. (Incidentally this is related to why patents were created: not to constrain or encourage innovation, but to get people to publish inventions instead of keeping them secret). If copyright were abolished and so too copyleft destroyed, linux users freedoms would probably materially go down, not up (though in general user freedom would marginally increase because most software is not copyleft).
Re:Copilot sells code other people wrote by imtringued on Friday June 24, 2022 @08:05AM (#31860519)
Copyleft is formalized code sharing. Pretty much an excuse to tell people to share their code.
Re:Copilot sells code other people wrote by matheusmoreira on Thursday June 23, 2022 @04:13PM (#31854578)
> And IIRC RMS has said the same thing; that he'd be in favor of the removal of copyright over code as a concept even if it meant neutering the protections of the GPL.

Do you have a citation? I was under the impression he defended copyright because copyleft depends on it.