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Re:I fucking hate Jira by hn_throwaway_99 on Monday June 20, 2022 @03:42PM (#31814785)
I disagree with this. Absolutely, once Jira (or any particular project management tool) gets it's "tentacles" into a sizable enterprise, it's very difficult to dislodge.

But I've seen tons of other examples in my career of companies making larger, more difficult transitions because they clearly felt the risk/benefit was worth it: moving from CVS/Subversion to git, moving from on-prem to the cloud, moving from Windows to Mac, moving from hipchat to Slack, moving from Oracle to postgres, yada yada yada.

I'm certainly not saying it's easy, but I fully believe that if a project management solution came along and all stakeholders went "holy shit, this is so much better than Jira", that many companies would make the switch. This hasn't happened, and honestly if you hear people complain about Fogbugz or Asana or whatever that it's probably an equal "per-capita" bitch rate.

Re:I fucking hate Jira by cogman10 on Monday June 20, 2022 @04:59PM (#31815872)
> moving from CVS/Subversion to git

Was that really painful? We did that transition and it amounted to having teams one by one run the "git-svn" script on their repos to port over to git. Even with over a million commits on our central SVN server, the whole process generally took around 5 minutes per project. Even in the worst cases, it was something like 1 hour.

The most painful part we had was putting a rate limiter in place to keep our SVN server from toppling over.

> moving from on-prem to the cloud, moving from Windows to Mac, moving from hipchat to Slack, moving from Oracle to postgres

These are certainly all more difficult but also things that aren't central to the way the company operates AND can be done a piece at a time. Moving from Jira->something else can't really be done in a piecemeal fashion.

The other big problem here is Jira has a wider audience than just the dev department. Dev saying "Let's go from svn to git" is something that doesn't hardly need involvement from the C levels. They never (usually) touch or look at the VCS interface. In fact, the only thing you listed that I think would be a hard sell to C levels is switching from windows to mac. Though, I suspect a lot of them are using macs anyways. Try getting your C levels to agree to switch from mac or windows to linux and I bet that'd never fly in any organization.

> I fully believe that if a project management solution came along and all stakeholders went "holy shit, this is so much better than Jira"

I just disagree. The best counter example is Internet Explorer. Both Firefox and Chromium have been better than IE for a long time (10->15 years). So why didn't every corporation switch to Firefox? Why did Chrome end up winning for desktop web browser even though it came so much later (2008)?

The answer is simple, chrome advertised on media that stakeholders watched.

Chrome eventually won, but it got there through deep pockets and advertising. If there's anything that will topple atlassian, it will have to be through the same route. That product/product set has to be better AND they have to spend a lot of capital advertising so that other shareholders find out they exist. Without doing both those things, toppling atlassian will be a long nearly impossible slog.

Re:I fucking hate Jira by spc476 on Monday June 20, 2022 @05:41PM (#31816412)
It depends upon how SVN is used, and for the team I'm on, it's going to be painful. SVN allows you to checkout a subdirectory of any given repository, and because of our history, we have everything my team writes (10 programs) in two repositories, with a lot of sharing between the two repos. This is something that is ... not easy ... to replicate with git [1].

As far as Macs go, the company I worked for was 50/50 Mac/Windows, with the majority (if not outright all) of the developers using Macs. We got bought out, and our new corporate overlords were purely Windows, and didn't know what to do about our Macs. Personally, I ended up with a fully manged Windows laptop that I never used [2] for three years before I could send it back and send me a "semi-managed" Mac laptop.

As for Jira, eh. I didn't mind it that much, except when management mandated that every team use the same queue for everything. That queue didn't match our preferred method of working, so we kept our old queue purely for internal stuff. Our time tracking system is way worse than Jira by far.

[1] Not to say I love SVN---I hate it actually, and would prefer to use git. But having used SVN for over a decade on these two repos, and given their structure, it's going to be interesting.

[2] Except to turn it on to have it autoupdate when I got "the email". What a colossal waste of resources. My team kept on using the Macs.

Re:I fucking hate Jira by kelnos on Monday June 20, 2022 @04:18PM (#31815311)
I think it's maybe a bit of both? I worked at an org that was using Trac for most things. It's probably fine for a small, engineering-driven company, but it's not very full-featured and isn't great for PMs and other business types.

So once the company got large enough, management wanted to switch. Many of us essentially said, "ok, that's fine, but please please please not Jira". And yet, they went and hired some consultants who were like "oh, Jira is the industry standard for your line of work, you'd be taking on a huge risk not using it, blah blah blah". Management bought it, and they've been on Jira ever since.

Re:I fucking hate Jira by hn_throwaway_99 on Monday June 20, 2022 @04:25PM (#31815422)
If you said "please please please not Jira", what other options did y'all suggest that you thought would be better?