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Re:Consciousness is not computation by thom on Monday June 20, 2022 @03:04AM (#31807160)
Bertrand Russell made this point about Descartes’ “cogito ergo sum”, stating it would more correctly be something like “there are thoughts”.
Re:Consciousness is not computation by xoac on Monday June 20, 2022 @03:36AM (#31807342)
But in this case Russell was completely wrong because he interprets Descartes' cogito as a syllogism whereas it is a performative statement. Descrates' is only establishing that it's self-evident for himself that he exists, and not to assert to anyone external that he or his thoughts exist.
Re:Consciousness is not computation by thom on Monday June 20, 2022 @04:17AM (#31807634)
He’s making the point that he-ness and himself-ness is too bold a conclusion to draw from the mere existence of thoughts.
Re:Consciousness is not computation by xoac on Monday June 20, 2022 @06:34AM (#31808608)
Thinking these thoughts however (from a pov of some subject) is not a "mere existence of thoughts". This imo is a classic analytic/positivistic language game.
Re:Consciousness is not computation by thom on Monday June 20, 2022 @06:52AM (#31808738)
Prove it!

(I jest, you're preaching to the choir, i.e. a first year philosophy degree drop-out who switched to do computer science to avoid having these arguments)

Re:Consciousness is not computation by TheOtherHobbes on Monday June 20, 2022 @03:35AM (#31807338)
Which doesn't solve the problem, because it define what a "thought" is.

And besides - there are also emotions and physical sensations.

Re:Consciousness is not computation by thom on Monday June 20, 2022 @04:19AM (#31807650)
We can just lump all these together as “qualia”. “There are qualia” is the basest possible conclusion that can be drawn, as opposed to “I have qualia, therefore I am”.
Re:Consciousness is not computation by gfodor on Monday June 20, 2022 @08:24AM (#31809480)
Yeah I take it to mean this way too, its very strange that Descartes is controversial among eg panpsychics because of the fixation on the term 'think' - it seems pretty clear that he was just noticing that qualia exists and is the only real axiom one can rely on for any kind of self-induced philosophy of mind.