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Re:Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets by omegalulw on Saturday June 18, 2022 @03:57PM (#31793246)
And these systems exist because sellers do fraud too, merchants that don't ship after taking payment, etc. With irreversible payments through crypto you are just pushing all the risk on customers. That will never fly.
Re:Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets by rglullis on Saturday June 18, 2022 @04:01PM (#31793291)
If the customer does not trust the merchant, they simply don't make the payment with crypto.

Why, oh why is it so hard to understand the concept of multiple alternatives?

Re:Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets by bryanlarsen on Saturday June 18, 2022 @04:24PM (#31793494)
Every retailer with a median transaction size under $20 hates credit cards. Yet with rare exception they all take cards.

The customer chooses the mechanism, not the merchant. To best credit cards you'll have to be more customer friendly.

Re:Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets by rglullis on Saturday June 18, 2022 @04:28PM (#31793528)
Come to Berlin and marvel at how many cash-only shops we have.

And if you are talking about internet retailers, can we make an exercise to think of how many new businesses would be viable if transactions of 20 cents were a thing?

Re:Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets by elondaits on Sunday June 19, 2022 @08:48AM (#31798802)
10 years ago I remember either MediaMarkt or Saturn (large electronics/ home appliance stores) not taking credit cards. Now not only most businesses in Berlin take credit cards (I saw a couple of cash-only, for sure)… I found a couple of “electronic payments only” ones.
Re:Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets by rglullis on Sunday June 19, 2022 @09:04AM (#31798958)
A lot of shops started to accepted cards because of Covid restrictions, leading to the point of "contactless transactions". Now that restrictions are being lifted, smaller shops are going back to cash only or putting high minimums.
Re:Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets by scatters on Saturday June 18, 2022 @08:12PM (#31794964)
Why is that? Is Berlin more prone to credit card fraud than usual for Europe?
Re:Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets by rglullis on Saturday June 18, 2022 @08:26PM (#31795053)
Two explanations I've heard: (1) small-shop owners simply do not want to pay the fees to card processors and (2) people are more privacy-minded here and distrustful of both the government and the banks, so they don't use credit/debit cards for purchases as often.
Re:Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets by vorpalhex on Saturday June 18, 2022 @06:26PM (#31794363)
If you don't trust the customer, don't take their business.
Re:Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets by rglullis on Saturday June 18, 2022 @06:41PM (#31794458)
Right, shoplifting doesn't exist. Movie theaters run around profitably by getting people to pay whatever they want. They even let them bring their own food. And banks give you a mortgage just because you look like such a trustworthy dude.
Re:Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets by vorpalhex on Sunday June 19, 2022 @01:32AM (#31796405)
How does crypto solve shoplifting?

Banks do credit worthiness checks as part of business.

Movie theaters actually do keep a banned list and enforce it.

Re:Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets by rglullis on Sunday June 19, 2022 @03:01AM (#31796918)
My comment was just meant to show the absurd of "not making business if you don't trust the customer"
Re:Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets by vorpalhex on Sunday June 19, 2022 @11:24AM (#31800249)
But that is literally what your examples are doing! Either not doing business because of lost trust or establishing trust before giving money.
Re:Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets by rglullis on Sunday June 19, 2022 @12:40PM (#31800904)
No. What I am saying is that for the majority of cases, there is no "trust" involved. There is a protocol that ensures that the exchange occurs properly, regardless of any trust relationship between customer and seller.
Re:Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets by scatters on Saturday June 18, 2022 @08:11PM (#31794957)
So people with low social capital should do what, starve?
Re:Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets by vorpalhex on Sunday June 19, 2022 @11:30AM (#31800292)
Grocery stores are pretty low trust environments.

If you literally are getting banned from grocery stores and starving the answer is probably "the prison warden has a legal duty to feed you".

Re:Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets by TheOtherHobbes on Saturday June 18, 2022 @07:49PM (#31794846)
How are you supposed to know which customers are trustworty and which aren't?
Re:Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets by vorpalhex on Sunday June 19, 2022 @11:28AM (#31800276)
Last time I got a mortgage I had to turn over financial history and have credit checks run. I have definitely had to pass background checks as a customer before.

Your landlord asks you to post a security deposit.

We literally have an entire credit worthiness sector.

You can also invert this and take trust as a default and only ban misbehaving customers.