I think whenever HN readers deride a product because it doesn't suit them, that's not an effective argument. Like do you have any idea how strong conversion rates are on email? Or even paper mail? Stuff we all hate can be very effective at growing an audience. I honestly don't use Patreon at all and we rejected it as a platform for content monetization at my company, but I can also tell you that our first-party approach wasn't exactly a slam dunk.