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Re:SpaceX said to fire employees involved in letter rebuking... by mschuster91 on Friday June 17, 2022 @10:07AM (#31778386)
> A lot of people (myself included) really respect SpaceX and I think that's the last pillar on which Elon's reputation stands. Tesla honestly isn't that interesting and there's a real chance it gets eaten alive as other car manufacturers have caught up.

Build quality wise? Definitely, Tesla has a lot of issues there which the established industry has ironed out and perfected over the last hundred years.

Other problems? No way in hell the others can catch up. The old guard of automotive manufacturers simply is too stuck in their old ways - they have to manage the expectations of dealerships (as the only service most electric cars need is brake pad changes and Teslas are sold online, their existence is threatened) and suppliers (your average ICE alone takes something around 1000-2000 distinct parts, whereas electric cars need far fewer for the drivetrain), and no automotive manufacturer has anything resembling a history with developing modern software and it shows everywhere.

Re:SpaceX said to fire employees involved in letter rebuking... by ravenstine on Friday June 17, 2022 @10:16AM (#31778526)
You bring up a good point, but I think old school car manufacturers don't believe that directly competing with Tesla is the winning move. If they're smart, I think they'll go for affordability, which is an utterly failed promise of Tesla. Bring down the price of full-electrics and plug-in hybrids, and you've got an audience of buyers that Tesla never took seriously. I for one would love an electric vehicle but in the year 2022 it's still not economical for me to trade in my beater car for even a used plug-in hybrid.

When there's a recession, no one's going to give a shit about a car with a bunch of bells and whistles. They want a car that they can afford to buy and afford to drive. In any case, that's what I want.

Re:SpaceX said to fire employees involved in letter rebuking... by mschuster91 on Friday June 17, 2022 @10:49AM (#31779039)
You need experience though to bring batteries down to affordable prices - both for yield improvements and for actually figuring out stuff like "how to construct a BMS that keeps batteries somewhat alive?"... Tesla has had well over a decade to fine-tune their entire stack, the only one who can match them in experience is Toyota with the Prius lineup. The second-next is BMW, but the i8 is a niche model for rich show-offs and the i3 is a toy - and BMW hasn't been associated with "affordability" in many decades.

The car manufacturers that are associated with attributes like "affordability" don't have much experience with electric vehicles, so they will have to buy that experience or do it the same way Tesla did, which means they will need a decade.

Re:SpaceX said to fire employees involved in letter rebuking... by ravenstine on Friday June 17, 2022 @11:23AM (#31779561)
I don't think experience has that much to do with affordability. Tesla might assemble their batteries at their factory, but the actual lithium ion cells are manufactured by Panasonic, was well as supporting electronics. There's nothing magical or mysterious about the Tesla EV powertrain. Affordability is going to come down to necessity, demand (related to necessity), and how cheap a plentiful number of li-ion batteries can be made.

How much experience do you think is required? Other companies like Chevy, Chrysler, Hyundai, and Ford already have semi-electric vehicles for sale today. They don't all need to be successes. It can take just one of them to come out with an affordable electric vehicle when the economics are right, and sticking to plug-in hybrids gives them plenty of time to get experience.

Re:SpaceX said to fire employees involved in letter rebuking... by CJefferson on Friday June 17, 2022 @12:39PM (#31780790)
As I understand it, there are other computer-controlled cars which are notable further along than Tesla. For example, Mercedes is will to take legal responsiblity for their system, while Tesla isn't.
Re:SpaceX said to fire employees involved in letter rebuking... by pvaldes on Sunday June 19, 2022 @06:02AM (#31797917)
This kind of claims are used also as PR stunt and to assure a "monopoly" over post-sale period. Any repair or maintenance out of Mercedes and I assume that the legal responsibility would vanish. In the past car owners were asked for extra guarantee for a minor increase in the price. Now they probably aren't being asked and is silently included in the overprice.
Re:SpaceX said to fire employees involved in letter rebuking... by jlmorton on Friday June 17, 2022 @10:16AM (#31778549)
Yeah, I stopped reading at the assertion that other car companies have caught up to Tesla.

Lots of people have not internalized what's going on at Tesla. They still seem to be stuck on the idea that when the large, experienced auto manufacturers start really ramping up EVs, Tesla will be swamped.

What seems to have gone unnoticed is that Tesla has significantly higher margins per vehicle than all other major automakers, including Toyota. Tesla is years ahead on batteries. While the rest of the industry is fighting over a limited supply of third-party batteries, Tesla is buying nickel directly from Vale, for their own batteries, in their own form factor, with their own chemistry.

Tesla is beating the established automakers on scale and profit margins.

OTA Updates? Rapid iteration cycle? Supercharger network? Doubling factories every few years?

Tesla has lots and lots of problems, from servicing, to pricing, to build quality, to various ethical issues. But they're years ahead on EVs.

Re:SpaceX said to fire employees involved in letter rebuking... by alphabettsy on Friday June 17, 2022 @11:45AM (#31779907)
> Tesla has significantly higher margins per vehicle than all other major automakers, including Toyota.

I feel like this is because they charge BMW prices for less than Honda quality, especially with the Model 3. Maybe they can keep this up, but we’ll see. Tesla tech is certainly better than most if not all and is a huge selling point.