Strange. The 3 Honda Civics I’ve owned (brand new when driven off the lots) have all had no “bring back to the dealership” issues except recalls.

Yah Honda and Toyota will eat Tesla alive once they get moving with EVs which they have.

Do you think Honda, Toyota and every other car manufacturer would even be offering electric vehicles at this time if Tesla did not exist?

I think they would. Toyota already had very good hybrid cars for years, so plenty of experiences with batteries. Tesla made electric cars sexy, but I was always just a matter of time before electric would go mainstream.

I think the existing investment in tooling, plant and equipment that these companies have accumulated makes it hard to economically justify starting from scratch with new tooling, plant and equipment on a product line that has no competition. Tesla provided that competition, and justified such investment.

Who cares?

I for one. Disruption of complacent industries has defined our age, and been the motivator for countless entrepreneurs. Created more jobs than we can realistically measure, through the emergence of entirely new industries.

The established auto manufacturers have a long standing pattern of paying lip service to electric vehicles. General motors went so far as to reclaim, disable, crush, and/or shred virtually every model of the EV1, the first mass-produced and purpose-designed electric vehicle of the modern era. [1]. The manner in which GM created barriers to entry for electric vehicles with the EV1 program is the stuff of legend. [2]

TSLA has been the most shorted stock in history, with close to $57 billion being lost by short sellers between 2010 and 2021. [3]. That entrenched economic forces want Tesla ended is no secret.

The mass adoption of electric vehicles was Elon's stated goal with Tesla, and it looks like that is well on its way to being accomplished.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car

[3] https://qz.com/1979325/tesla-not-gamestop-is-the-most-shorte...

I really don't think just b/c tesla "did it first" we should give a crap. We should only give a crap that companies are bringing cheap EVs to consumers. tesla is not doing that.

> That entrenched economic forces want Tesla ended is no secret.

Literally a conspiracy theory.

> Literally a conspiracy theory.

A conspiracy theory to have your stock undermined with unsurpassed short selling? Or for the president to hold an "EV Summit" and not even invite the company with the most US electric-car sales (74% over the past three years) who were recently dubbed the "most American-made"? [1]

[1] https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-beats-ford-as-most-ame...

Same with my several Camrys, Honda pilot, and Toyota.;)

My family has had 4 cars in the last 15 years (I won't mention models, but they were fairly reasonable, middle-of-the-pack vehicles). Three of them had no defects at all. The most recent one, a hybrid with a bunch of fancy electronics, had just a couple of problems, covered under warranty and fixed in less than a day. (And if our dealers flake out, there are independent service and repair shops that can do the same job, or better).

When several of my Tesla-owning cow-orkers reported waiting six months for things like body panels, I resolved not to buy one.

But a single something, even if it takes two trips to resolve, is a whole lot less than this list of ~18 problems with ~23 service visits that span from mildly annoying (wrong model listed in software) to serious (steering system grinding, which they had the audacity to pass off as normal).

This has to be close to qualifying for lemon law status?

It wasn't 23 service visits, as I attempted to have multiple problems fixed per visit. So far it has been in service for 14 days spread across 7 services.

California lemon laws require a car to be in service for at least 30 days in the first 18 months.

My car made by Toyota never had to go to the shop for anything serious for several years. Sure, I needed to get tires replaced multiple times, but internals took 7-8 years, and I finally sold it off at the 12 year mark, after having replaced the batteries, the alternator, and the brakes.

My BMW took at least a couple of years before I ran into problems.

A new vehicle shouldn't have any problems for at least a couple of years, period.

I’ve done it twice. Out of two new vehicles. YMMV.