I think we'd continue with a proportional-representation system, so as-it-stands they'd sort of be running things but they'd need a coalition partner like they have in the Scottish Greens.

> A few years later, an unrepresentative (to scotland) tory government takes it from us anyway because they were frightened of nigel farage and some middle englanders don't like hearing polish in their local tescos.

You want a referendum because other people you disagree with were given a referendum that you then lost? And you paint this as "tory government takes it from us"?

I also note that millions voted, it'd be hard for them all to be middle Englanders. I just wonder why you need to paint it so far from reality and in a way that only suits you?

It's not quite as straightforward as that.

Scotland overwhelmingly voted remain. Scotland also is not represented by the Tory government in Westminster.

These are constitutional issues, and the people should be given the choice if they want this to continue or not.

I don't think being asked to chose is undemocratic, it's /exactly/ democracy. Let the people decide.

> Scotland overwhelmingly voted remain. Scotland also is not represented by the Tory government in Westminster.

Scotland did not get a vote, and there are Scottish Tories, and there are members of parliament from all the regions of Scotland. Scottish people are represented better than English people in all respects.

> These are constitutional issues, and the people should be given the choice if they want this to continue or not.

I agree, I voted in the last referendum and I will vote in the next. I disagree with the behaviour of the nationalists so I will vote against them.

> I don't think being asked to chose is undemocratic, it's /exactly/ democracy. Let the people decide.

Do you think that politicians making blatant lies to the public is democratic? I'm not asking if it happens or is likely or an unfortunate aspect of politics, I'm asking if you think it should be part of the way things are actually done and if the voters should overlook it - is it democratic?

Reasons for wanting a referendum are none of your business. It suffices to say they want one.

If it fails, then not enough wanted to leave. That is all.

When they failed to do Brexit for years running, and it turned out the arguments for were lies, there should have been another Brexit vote. It would have failed, and a great deal of trouble would be saved.

It's strange that I was allowed to vote in the last one if it's none of my business.

> they want one.

Polls consistently show less than 50%. Perhaps the "they" you meant is the SNP?

The point is you don't know until the vote how it would turn out. If you did know, there would be no need for the vote.

You don't know why the overwhelming majority of them voted as they did. Maybe most of them can't be said to know. It suffices that they voted.

I think you're changing the point. Why is it none of my business?

It is nobody's business. A vote is a vote.

If I get to vote then it is my business, else I wouldn't or shouldn't get a vote.

It's none of your business why they want to call a referendum, or why anybody would vote as they would, or how they would vote, individually. There may be as many reasons as votes. You will of course vote on it as you please, or not vote, and it's also nobody else's business whether or how you voted, or why.

You are free to announce how you will vote, and why. And you can change your mind afterward, and vote the opposite, without telling anybody.

This is all absolutely elementary civics.

> It's none of your business why they want to call a referendum

The intentions of politicians are not my business and that is "absolutely elementary civics". That isn't credible.

As to the rest, obvious and irrelevant. When did I make any comment on someone else's right or reasons to vote? I didn't, thank for noticing enough that you refrain from attempting to use it to obscure the issue at hand - your claim about what is my business or not.

Politicians are expected to do what voters are demanding.

They can guess reasons why they think voters want it, and some voters may suggest reasons they think will be persuasive. The pols might offer reasons, too, but they don't really know, so you won't really know either.

And, it doesn't matter. You will vote for, against, or abstain, regardless. People can try to persuade you, but they are not obliged to tell you the truth about their own reasons. The pols, anyway, just want to get elected again and hope that supporting or blocking a referendum vote will do that for them. That is their actual reason. but it doesn't help you any.

If you really believe everybody is telling you the real reasons why they do, promote, or block this or that, I have a bridge to sell you.

I obviously won't believe the SNP from now on, not that I did. You can keep that bridge, perhaps find some less principled pro-independence voters to sell it to.

secession from a union that is not representing your interests is valid.

this was the case for brexit, why is it different for scotland?

I wrote that I voted for independence right at the top of the thread, did you miss that?