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Re:Estonia clocks fastest inflation in the Eurozone at 20.1 ... by rjzzleep on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @08:32AM (#31666307)
I'm sorry, but the Estonian prime minister is a Eurocrat idiot that lacks basic understanding of how either military or economy work or operate. You want to be independent of Hydrocarbons and Russian commodities? Okay well the Chinese model of silently building up the capabilities to do that is one way to approach the issue. France is an even better example of the idiocy of this as France had one of the most advanced nuclear facilities on the globe. And instead of investing in it, Macron sold it off to GE, further crippling its own ability to say goodbye to Russia. Who's advising these people that they don't even have the most basic understanding of how fertilizers tie into the food supply.

I used to think that all we need in Government is fresh wind which will solve most our problems, but I'm realizing that age isn't by itself either the problem or the solution. See Biden for old age or Europe for young age destructive leadership. Apparently not all wind is fresh and some of it is rotten and smells like sewage.

I'm completely baffled at how people cannot comprehend basic co-dependencies in the economies, supply chain or whatever other part that is happening. The whole "we need to suffer to show a moral lesson" is easy for people to say that have had nothing to sacrifice and never had to work hard for anything in their life while never in history have so many people dropped out of the middle class in European societies.

EDIT: Don't drink your own kool-aid, is a good summary I've been given about the whole situation. European leaders massively overestimating their own importance and capability in the world(both economic and military) based on their own inflated GDP numbers and MIC commercials.

EDIT 2: It's unfortunate that even in such a platform there is no rational thinking about something that is objectively true based on propaganda that actually came from the other side. "Russia is this" "Russia is that".

Facts are still facts.

You need fertilizer to feed people. Fertilizers are byproducts of Gas production. Fertilizer prices have been rising because of dis-incentivization of hydrocarbons. Nuclear is still a lot cleaner than most of the green energy alternatives. It didn't start in February 2022 even though the white house would like you to believe that[1].

Even the Ombudsman for human rights of Ukraine that was recently fired for constantly lying, said that she has been lying about Russian war crimes to turn public opinion against Russia[2].

EDIT 3: The US DoJ used the FCPA(Foreign Corrupt Practices Act) to threaten the Alstom leadership to sell off to GE. GE then buys the nuclear business and dismantles its plants in 2019 contrary to previous promises[3]. For all the talk of "oh we'll just buy it back", it's unclear what exactly is being bought back, how much it costs to rebuild capabilities that were destroyed and how much of the IP is actually sold back. My guess is, very little. It's odd that people act like it's just a little blip, when it's very clearly an geopolitical attack on one of the most important parts of french infrastructure.

[1] https://agrilifetoday.tamu.edu/2022/01/12/report-analyzes-re...

[2] https://lb.ua/news/2022/06/03/518875_lyudmila_denisova_azovt...

[3] https://www.entreprendre.fr/alstom-general-electric-le-piege...

Re:Estonia clocks fastest inflation in the Eurozone at 20.1 ... by ericmay on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @08:37AM (#31666362)
> Okay well the Chinese model of silently building up the capabilities to do that is one way to approach the issue.

Sure, but you also can't help chaotic, random events taking place that make any potential plans to do that go up in smoke. The alternative in this specific issue (i.e. not standing up to Russia) is likely just further dependency on oil/natural gas from Russia and eventually just being outright colonized because you are so dependent that you can't resist. Dropping off even at a high cost protects Estonian sovereignty.

Re:Estonia clocks fastest inflation in the Eurozone at 20.1 ... by jgilias on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @08:45AM (#31666431)
If it was _just_ getting colonized, that's one thing. The alternative for Baltics is not that benign. See Mariupol, Buchi, Irpin, etc, etc, etc...
Re:Estonia clocks fastest inflation in the Eurozone at 20.1 ... by vogre on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @09:02AM (#31666650)
Why not see Armenia or even modern Georgia, who don't use aggressive rhetorics on Russia, don't deploy NATO weapons and feel okay?
Re:Estonia clocks fastest inflation in the Eurozone at 20.1 ... by ericmay on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @09:10AM (#31666747)
Mainly because in the case of Estonia, for example, they don't use aggressive rhetoric toward Russia but are threatened anyway. Finland has continuously been threatened during this time despite 70+ years of balancing both the Soviet Union and NATO and while more culturally compatible with NATO they spent a lot of effort to be friendly and neutral with the USSR.

Georgia was invaded in 2008 [1].

> don't deploy NATO weapons and feel okay?

Estonia and other countries near Russia historically didn't really have a ton of NATO weapons deployments specifically because NATO wasn't intent on aggravating Russia. Training exercises from time to time because they're allies but that's about it. Troop buildups and weapons deployments have strictly been in response to the war in Ukraine which was launched by Russia. Sovereign states have the right under international law (law that Russia signed by the way) to choose their own defense arrangements and conduct their own affairs.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War

Re:Estonia clocks fastest inflation in the Eurozone at 20.1 ... by Mvandenbergh on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @09:30AM (#31667043)
In the case of Georgia, that must be a definition of "feel ok" that I've not encountered before.
Re:Estonia clocks fastest inflation in the Eurozone at 20.1 ... by jgilias on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @08:54AM (#31666539)
Yes, it's a problem that there are co-dependencies with Russia. Yes, it's a grave mistake that Europe didn't untangle from those right after 2014. But not untangling them now would be completely brain-dead. I mean... Russia is now a rogue state carrying out scorched earth tactics, officially rewarding units guilty of war crimes (killing of civilians, rape), threatening the world with nuclear weapons, hijacking planes, stealing intellectual property in the open, etc, etc, etc... It's just... mind-blowing that there are still voices out there trying to figure out a way to 'talk it through'. That boat has long sailed.
Re:Estonia clocks fastest inflation in the Eurozone at 20.1 ... by at0mic22 on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @09:11AM (#31666767)
So tired of those buzzwords, used with for no particular reason.

Those countries reside on the border of Russia and logistics in operations were fairly easy and cheap. That fueled the business and money flow for may years.

Check out https://data.stat.ee/profile/country/ee/?locale=en. Russia was the second biggest trading partner, having Finland as the first. Surprisingly, if you check the trading structure of Finland, it's mostly the same Russian goods.

Russia accounts in 2B trading balance of Estonian import. This is a lot for a small country. Pretty much from the beginning of 200x the most money there were made either on raw re-export of Russian goods or processing and exporting.

If you have an idea of how to replace those 2B without rising costs tremendously, please share.

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Re:Estonia clocks fastest inflation in the Eurozone at 20.1 ... by jgilias on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @09:14AM (#31666802)
Nope, I can not, actually. This just doesn't correspond to reality. Name one city that has suffered the fate of Mariupol from US actions. Even NATO bombardment of Serbian cities doesn't come even close to the level of destruction that the Russians are inflicting indiscriminately.
Re:Estonia clocks fastest inflation in the Eurozone at 20.1 ... by vogre on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @09:25AM (#31666975)
>Name one city that has suffered the fate of Mariupol from US actions

Raqqa, Mosul, TONS of cities during WWII, including Dresden and Tokyo.

Re:Estonia clocks fastest inflation in the Eurozone at 20.1 ... by dmix on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @08:54AM (#31666545)
Historically wars (as awful as they were) often had a way of realigning politics/economic understanding with reality. The world has been so peaceful for so long that they lose sight of the fragility of success and wealth.

So much of modern political history is taking the economic gains for granted and assuming they will stay consistent (or only be a minor inconvenience) despite an endless march of downward pressure on many of the things that made us productive and progress.

For a long time the only thing that has masked it is the gains from globalization (even though the a big percentage of the returns often only went to megacorps and the well connected). But that will either reach its limits or conflicts will disrupt it. Then we see the costs of crippling of industries, getting rid knowledge, or misalign incentives.

Re:Estonia clocks fastest inflation in the Eurozone at 20.1 ... by capdeck on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @11:37AM (#31668950)
They say 2 generations need to pass between large wars reoccurrence on the planet. 1st generation that largely participated in the war will never do it again, whatever the cost. 2nd generation gets very strong message from 1st generation about true horrors of war, so it is much more careful. 3rd generation looses that direct connection and feedback from veterans, grandfathers, etc... so naturally they think of war as something that is minor inconvenience at best... And through the ignorance of 3rd generation - here we come. 80 years have passed since the last world war. Sadly, our time is up.
Re:Estonia clocks fastest inflation in the Eurozone at 20.1 ... by espadrine on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @09:03AM (#31666661)
> France had one of the most advanced nuclear facilities on the globe. And instead of investing in it, Macron sold it off to GE

That is misleading. The nuclear facilities were not sold to GE, only Alstom Power Systems, which engineers turbines. (The nuclear engineering part was never sold.) Furthermore, it was sold for $13B and is being rebought by the French EDF €175M.

Re:Estonia clocks fastest inflation in the Eurozone at 20.1 ... by pohl on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @08:54AM (#31666538)
...they don't even have the most basic understanding of...I'm completely baffled at how people cannot comprehend...

Maybe it's not a failure to understand. Maybe it's a symptom of the world-wide denial-of-service attack against the very concept of democracy. It doesn't cost much to pay someone to make government look bad. If you're an autocrat, it's kind of a no-brainer.