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Re:Apple Unveils M2 by smoldesu on Monday June 06, 2022 @03:50PM (#31645227)
> When AMD is on 5nm this year, we can re-assess and see whether that was the driving factor, or whether there are design reasons as well.

Quick note: AMD's 5nm offerings will not be using a big.LITTLE configuration, so direct comparison with the M1 would probably not be very accurate for the purposes of comparing power consumption.

Re:Apple Unveils M2 by msbarnett on Monday June 06, 2022 @03:56PM (#31645310)
> Quick note: AMD's 5nm offerings will not be using a big.LITTLE configuration, so direct comparison with the M1 would probably not be very accurate for the purposes of comparing power consumption.

Ok, but the second we start saying Intel or AMD needs to make architectural changes to match M1 performance/power consumption, that in and of itself is a refutation of the GP's argument that the only reason M1 looks good is the manufacturing node. We're admitting that there's an architectural component to its results.

Re:Apple Unveils M2 by paulmd on Monday June 06, 2022 @05:19PM (#31646424)
And Intel has big.LITTLE but they're not using TSMC nodes. Apple comparisons run on OSX or Asahi Linux, which doesn't run x86, so the software/ecosystem is different. Etc etc.

No comparison is ever perfect, you'll just have to take the best data we have and run with it. Complaining that a study isn't exactly perfect is trite, once you get beyond the "junior scientist makes obvious methodological error" tier it's honestly one of the least useful forms of criticism, someone is always going to think it should have been done better/differently (and wants you to take the time and spend the money to do it for them). But science is about doing the best you have and trying to make reasonable extrapolations about the things you can't.

Single-thread benchmarks on big vs little cores will get you IPC figures, and then you can scale those according to clocks you see on full-load conditions, for example.

Or you can simply compare it to a future 13th/14th gen Intel i3 with big.LITTLE, or an AMD quad-core APU. AMD has SMT, that's an advantage, Apple has single-threaded cores but a couple extra little cores, it's similar-ish.

Nothing is ever perfect. You just make do. It doesn't mean we throw up our hands and scream that if we can't be accurate to 1000 decimal points then we can never truly know anything.

(You may not have intended this, so just FYI: it kinda comes off like you're pre-stating that you won't accept the results if they don't come out the way you like, that you'll find some other difference between the two to latch onto. And there will always be some minor thing you can latch onto, no two designs are exactly identical. But that's not really an honest way to approach science, merely being able to theorize some differences isn't useful and if you feel strongly about it then you should do a similar test yourself to demonstrate.)

Re:Apple Unveils M2 by smoldesu on Monday June 06, 2022 @06:47PM (#31647422)
I definitely agree that there are reliable tests here (your suggested IPC count is "good enough" for these purposes), but the majority of benchmarking between these two machines wouldn't yield much of a comparison at all. I don't think it's unreasonable to annotate that comparing these chips directly is fools errand, especially since Apple has demonstrated that themselves with their own M1 benchmarking/graph fiascos.