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Re:Carbon dioxide now more than 50% higher than pre-industri... by PheonixPharts on Monday June 06, 2022 @09:11AM (#31640001)
> It's literally a personal attack on your freedom.

This is clearly false. It may feel like a personal attack on your freedom but:

1. It's not personal, this is a systemic problem and no one is trying to punish or harm you. The aim is ultimately to prevent harm, not just to you but to your whole community.

2. It's not an attack. The goal is not to cause you harm, again it's to prevent harm.

3. I'm not even sure what "freedom" means in this context. Do you feel that your freedom has been infringed upon when you have to stop at a cross walk for a pedestrian? Does not taking a shit in a public pool infringe upon this "freedom"? Freedom, for social organism, cannot mean complete and unrestricted action. The only people who have this view are actual toddlers, and part of them growing up to be elementary school kids is to learn about their role in society and the limits of their own rights in the face of others.

Re:Carbon dioxide now more than 50% higher than pre-industri... by rmah on Monday June 06, 2022 @11:49AM (#31642003)
I'll start by saying that I believe that we need societal changes to help mitigate climate change.

BUT, 1) it is personal, 2) it is an attack and 3) it is a limitation on personal freedoms.

If we wish to make actual changes to save the planet rather than just preach, we need to recognize these truths. Telling people that their feelings are wrong just makes them dig in their heels all the more. IMO, a better approach is to recognize these sort of objections and think creatively about how to deal with them or mitigate the impact. Remember, the objective isn't to win arguments, it's to heal the Earth.

Re:Carbon dioxide now more than 50% higher than pre-industri... by 14 on Monday June 06, 2022 @09:24AM (#31640123)
Well since it will be the poor who suffer the most one could argue it is a personal attack. If the law was that each individual gets X amount of carbon credits then you are stuck walking it would actually mean something. Instead it will be you get X amount of carbon credit then you buy more. So the rich will continue to pollute without worry and the poor will suffer. We need a system that everyone follows the same. But that will never happen.
Re:Carbon dioxide now more than 50% higher than pre-industri... by tbihl on Monday June 06, 2022 @11:18AM (#31641599)
>Well since it will be the poor who suffer the most

The poor always suffer most. What do you use your money for, if not to avoid suffering? Immediate, short term, and long term, that's probably how you spend most of your money, plus spending to avoid your children and family suffering.

Now that we've gotten that out of the way: since the environmental improvements of the mid-20th century, urban environments have been the clear winners for living affordably, to say nothing of the accessibility of public services. Poor people may not be able to live in the most expensive zip code of NYC, LA, SF, etc., but then they were hardly going to be living on 100-acre estates when they're living in rural or suburban settings. Car-dominated infrastructure poses enormous personal costs for every single person and miserable additional costs to ferry around non-driver children.

So, enough of your government-subsidized 'freedom'. I want the freedom to safely cross the street to church without a police officers (and half the other cars) accelerating into me in the crosswalk. I want the freedom to bike to work safely. I want the freedom for my children to bike to parks, schools, and libraries, like I could growing up. I want the federal and state governments to stop dumping money on my town to build roads as wide as runways to facilitate firetrucks doing 3 point turns and police flying through neighborhoods like action-movie jackasses.

Re:Carbon dioxide now more than 50% higher than pre-industri... by zajio1am on Monday June 06, 2022 @10:46AM (#31641174)
> If the law was that each individual gets X amount of carbon credits then you are stuck walking it would actually mean something. Instead it will be you get X amount of carbon credit then you buy more.

Revenue-neutral carbon tax is pretty much equivalent to giving everyone carbon credits and allowing trading them (just with less overhead). If some rich people pay more tax to pollute more, then more money would be distributed back to everybody.

Re:Carbon dioxide now more than 50% higher than pre-industri... by lkbm on Monday June 06, 2022 @09:32AM (#31640218)
> Well since it will be the poor who suffer the most one could argue it is a personal attack.

Is there only one poor person?

Harming a class of people is not a personal attack.

Re:Carbon dioxide now more than 50% higher than pre-industri... by macinjosh on Monday June 06, 2022 @09:36AM (#31640255)
> 1. It's not personal, this is a systemic problem and no one is trying to punish or harm you. The aim is ultimately to prevent harm, not just to you but to your whole community.

This is the most tone deaf statement. If green policies make it harder for me to provide for my family, live our life as we see fit, or force me to do things I don't want to it is _very_ personal, like incredibly personal. There is no reason for you or anyone else to have any power over my life as a voter or a king, period.

Re:Carbon dioxide now more than 50% higher than pre-industri... by suture on Monday June 06, 2022 @09:44AM (#31640347)
I think your understanding of what a society means and entails is badly out of whack with reality. Living in a society entails curbs on “freedoms”. People in every society are subjected to the norms, ideals, and views of that society. These things change over time. Sometimes change is forced by external events and sometimes changes occur from within. Lots of people have power over you and power over your life today, right now. You are apparently comfortable with the ways and means of that control over your life and don’t want it to change but please don’t think that no one should have power over you.
Re:Carbon dioxide now more than 50% higher than pre-industri... by triceratops on Monday June 06, 2022 @10:02AM (#31640610)
> There is no reason for you or anyone else to have any power over my life as a voter

Unless you have your own private air that never touches anyone else's air, we all have a right to control your actions that change our collective air. If you don't agree, go find your own planet and live there.

Re:Carbon dioxide now more than 50% higher than pre-industri... by LBJsPNS on Monday June 06, 2022 @09:50AM (#31640429)
"force me to do things I don't want to"

Yes, it's terrible. Were it not for that accursed law thar robs us of our liberty, I would murder you on the spot for such an asinine comment.

Understand now partially what a society is about?

Re:Carbon dioxide now more than 50% higher than pre-industri... by mola on Monday June 06, 2022 @10:31AM (#31640987)
And what if non green policies now will make it harder to provide for your family tomorrow? Those arguing in good faith for green policies are thinking this. They are not out to get you, and take away your freedom. They fear all of our freedoms will be obliterated by the harsh realities of climate change.
Re:Carbon dioxide now more than 50% higher than pre-industri... by mempko on Monday June 06, 2022 @10:37AM (#31641054)
The only reason you think cars are a good thing and give you freedom and not say, busses and trains, is because cars are available to you and the infrastructure is available to you. Others who have fantastic public transport feel cars are restricting and expensive way to move around.

You are simply a product of an environment you had no say in creating.