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Re:VSCodium – Free/Libre Open Source Software Binaries of VS... by codedokode on Friday June 03, 2022 @05:12AM (#31605948)
> telemetry is a good thing

It is good only if it is "opt in". But in the wild we see that lot of software doesn't even provide an opt out and doesn't warn about telemetry when installing or starting a program.

If it is such a good thing, why developers prefer not to disclose its usage?

Re:VSCodium – Free/Libre Open Source Software Binaries of VS... by kristiandupont on Friday June 03, 2022 @06:05AM (#31606366)
>It is good only if it is "opt in"

Why? This isn't a product marketed to kids using dark patterns or something. People who feel like you do can easily opt out.

>If it is such a good thing, why developers prefer not to disclose its usage?

Maybe because they feel that it's not that big a deal. They could also "disclose" that the app uses X amount of harddisk space or memory, or that it was built by developers who are running Windows as their primary OS. That might be a deal breaker to some, but most people probably don't care.

Re:VSCodium – Free/Libre Open Source Software Binaries of VS... by danieldk on Friday June 03, 2022 @06:33AM (#31606542)
Why? This isn't a product marketed to kids using dark patterns or something. People who feel like you do can easily opt out.

IANAL, but if you make the product available in the EU, you are required to make telemetry opt-in if there is personally identifiable information, or you'll violate the GDPR. Note that according to interpretations of various EU bodies, PII also means information that could be correlated to persons, like randomly generated identifiers (not just obviously PII information like an e-mail address or IP address).

Re:VSCodium – Free/Libre Open Source Software Binaries of VS... by eterevsky on Friday June 03, 2022 @07:11AM (#31606783)
If this weren't legal I doubt it would've been distributed the way it is.
Re:VSCodium – Free/Libre Open Source Software Binaries of VS... by danieldk on Friday June 03, 2022 @10:03AM (#31608429)
I think that is somewhat naive. The general approach of big tech has been: let's just break the rules until we get a slap on the wrist. It's not like privacy authorities are going to charge them with 4% of the annual turnover the first time. Besides that, they probably have bigger fish to fry than some program that is used by a tiny subset of the general population.
Re:VSCodium – Free/Libre Open Source Software Binaries of VS... by eterevsky on Saturday June 04, 2022 @02:59AM (#31617754)
As someone working in big tech, this is very far from truth. In any questionable case there are endless legal and privacy reviews that catch 99% of possible transgressions. What you see is the 1% that slipped through this process.

> Besides that, they probably have bigger fish to fry than some program that is used by a tiny subset of the general population.

That's exactly the reason why MS would be on the safe side and not break any laws in this case. They could be a bit more daring if it benefitted them, but in this case there's literally no benefit except improving the software that they are giving out for free.

Re:VSCodium – Free/Libre Open Source Software Binaries of VS... by judge2020 on Friday June 03, 2022 @07:29AM (#31606919)
> why developers prefer not to disclose its usage?

Looks like it’s disclosed in detail;

https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/getstarted/telemetry

Re:VSCodium – Free/Libre Open Source Software Binaries of VS... by cercatrova on Friday June 03, 2022 @09:49AM (#31608242)
Opt in telemetry is near useless. The default case effect is very strong, as seen in the book Nudge.
Re:VSCodium – Free/Libre Open Source Software Binaries of VS... by yjftsjthsd-h on Friday June 03, 2022 @11:54AM (#31610050)
That something is hard to do ethically while still getting the benefit isn't an excuse to ignore the ethical issue.
Re:VSCodium – Free/Libre Open Source Software Binaries of VS... by cercatrova on Friday June 03, 2022 @12:07PM (#31610235)
That's why I eschew the ethical aspect. And well, improving a product is ethical, it depends on which ethical philosophy you subscribe to.
Re:VSCodium – Free/Libre Open Source Software Binaries of VS... by eterevsky on Friday June 03, 2022 @10:28AM (#31608757)
> If it is such a good thing, why developers prefer not to disclose its usage?

In my experience it's usually very prominently disclosed. In case of VSCode it's literally the 2nd section in their License Agreement, not to mention help pages, highly visible settings etc.

Re:VSCodium – Free/Libre Open Source Software Binaries of VS... by digisign on Friday June 03, 2022 @02:17PM (#31611821)
It's probably the suits that don't want it actionably disclosed rather than developers.

And we know MS has been caught several times disregarding consent and engaging in other dark patterns.