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Re:Toyota’s prototype 'cartridge' is a way to make hydrogen ... by jcranmer on Thursday June 02, 2022 @11:41AM (#31596252)
When trips are drive-to-work-each-day, and you can tolerate charging at your house overnight, the wait times for an EV charge are not an issue.

When your trips are drive-across-the-country, so you need to recharge multiple times en route, that's when it starts becoming substantially harder to find something else to overlap with your need to recharge. Even just doing Midwest-to-Mid-Atlantic drives, I'd complete my lunch pitstop (including eating, filling gas tank, and emptying bladder) before an EV charge could fill up again, even discounting the fact that the lesser range of an EV means I'd need to squeeze in another charging pitstop uncomfortably early to overlap with dinner.

Re:Toyota’s prototype 'cartridge' is a way to make hydrogen ... by smileysteve on Thursday June 02, 2022 @12:02PM (#31596531)
I think you cover it, but from elapsed time, the average consumer use is mostly commute or errand based with the occasional (or weekend trip).

What this means is that if you fill gas 1-2x a week to handle the average 20 mile commute, you've saved 10 minutes because the refill of the electric is at home, with little effort.

Now you bank that 10 minutes every time you take any one way <~200 mile trip with electricity at the ends.

If you're doing regular multi region drives you are not average, you're likely in the top 1% of consumer long range trips.

To add, the longer and "more often" stops are healthier for you and your passengers; very few cars have a less than 200 mile range now, and if you're sitting for that period of time, moving (or at least not sitting) is a good idea to prevent deep vein thrombosis, the longer the better.

Re:Toyota’s prototype 'cartridge' is a way to make hydrogen ... by vel0city on Thursday June 02, 2022 @12:17PM (#31596800)
> When your trips are drive-across-the-country

Good thing I do well less than 1 of those on average every year, along with practically every other passenger car in America.

Is driving from San Diego to New York City really a common thing people do here? Is that what the average driver does on a weekly basis? Is that really what we should be targeting our cars to do?

Re:Toyota’s prototype 'cartridge' is a way to make hydrogen ... by zardo on Thursday June 02, 2022 @03:28PM (#31599462)
Coast to coast is very uncommon. San Diego to Seattle, or New York to Miami would be much more typical of a once per year road trip.
Re:Toyota’s prototype 'cartridge' is a way to make hydrogen ... by vel0city on Thursday June 02, 2022 @03:45PM (#31599661)
If I were to add a NY-Miami-NY trip once a year to my life, and try and do that in a single shot, that would add ~4 hours of charging time round trip. In reality you wouldn't do that in a single shot (20 hours of driving each way!), you'd probably break it up into two days each way and thus have at least two low charge->100% in there "for free" time-wise. This would cut out an hour or so of charging wait time, so really probably closer to 2ish hours of charge time. On a 40+ hour round-trip drive.

EDIT: This is with a Hyundai Ioniq 5, not my current Mach E. The Mach E doesn't charge as fast as this most recent generation of EVs, so it would be a bit over 4 hours each way in the Mach E. However, if my plans for a car was "go on a yearly road trip", I would have probably bought an Ioniq 5 exactly for this reason. Personally though I'd probably just fly for either of those distances instead of spending 20+ hours in a car each way. Which is why the standard range version of the Mach E is perfectly fine for me.

Re:Toyota’s prototype 'cartridge' is a way to make hydrogen ... by zardo on Thursday June 02, 2022 @06:05PM (#31601108)
> In reality you wouldn't do that in a single shot (20 hours of driving each way!)

That depends, one person probably isn't doing that in a single shot, but a three people driving in shifts might.

Re:Toyota’s prototype 'cartridge' is a way to make hydrogen ... by natch on Thursday June 02, 2022 @12:20PM (#31596836)
Your mistake is thinking that an EV needs to fill up during road trips. That is very rarely the case unless you get one with a low range. California to Houston, we filled up once during the entire trip. Once.
Re:Toyota’s prototype 'cartridge' is a way to make hydrogen ... by gamblor956 on Thursday June 02, 2022 @02:09PM (#31598463)
Los Angeles to Houston is a 1500 mile drive. There are currently no EVs capable of making that drive with a single recharge.
Re:Toyota’s prototype 'cartridge' is a way to make hydrogen ... by natch on Thursday June 02, 2022 @11:55PM (#31604102)
and?
Re:Toyota’s prototype 'cartridge' is a way to make hydrogen ... by vel0city on Friday June 03, 2022 @08:52AM (#31607529)
They (somewhat reasonably) took "filled up" as "times charged". I did originally, but then when that distance was pointed out I got you meant you did a few smaller charging sessions and only one big to 100% charging session to make the trip.

If that's not what you're suggesting then that was not done in any commercially available EV in the US today. Even starting closer to the California border like El Centro and only making it to fringes of Houston like Katy is ~1330 miles, so ~665mi a leg. No generally available EV in the US has that range. So I take it you did a number of like 10-60% or whatever charge jaunts.

Even then though, if you were to sum up all of those shorter charging sessions you probably had to recharge your car a total of at least four charges energy-wise. If you get 300mi of range on a full.charge, 1,330 / 300 = 4.4333...

Re:Toyota’s prototype 'cartridge' is a way to make hydrogen ... by natch on Friday June 03, 2022 @09:18PM (#31615849)
Yes, you got it right, the “natch must be claiming to have a special car” is a bad take.

It’s more just that it really, really matters time-wise that the car is not charging up to full on any given stop, because that means the charging stops are significantly faster.

People who latch on to the idea of judging EVs on their time to get “fully”‘charged are going to get such a distorted idea that they will never believe current EVs could be a good option. But, they would be mistaken.

Re:Toyota’s prototype 'cartridge' is a way to make hydrogen ... by vel0city on Monday June 06, 2022 @03:26PM (#31644853)
Yeah, there's a bit of complexity around it and in the market today you could have two cars which both have the same "max range" but have vastly different times to complete a 1,200mi trip depending on a large number of factors. If you had two cars which state 300mi of range, one charged at 50kW and the other at 350kW, the 350kW car would win that marathon by a large margin. There's more to think about with EVs than just range, that's for sure.