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Re:Food security and the coming storm by imtringued on Monday May 30, 2022 @07:09AM (#31557755)
> since that is huge subject often misused by people that do no understand that all ownership of private capital and means of production is "capitalism" under which there can be good and bad effects.

I would argue that this misses the point. Capitalism isn't just a pile of physical capital. If it was, it would be impossible to result in oppression since physical capital must be maintained and it can be reproduced. Nobody would have any right to complain. Just think about it, would you be jealous of Jeff Bezoz' maintenance bill for his mega yacht? No, you are "jealous" that he has exclusive monopoly rights that restrict your own rights and perhaps even doom you to poverty.

It would be more appropriate to call "capitalism" the obsession to put the interests of capital and its owners above all other interests. This means, capital should be allowed to override the basic needs of other humans. Capital should have the right to deny others the ability to obtain shelter or food. Because of capital it should be possible to deny others the ability to trade or be employed.

>capitalism as an economic system is a foundation for liberty, one can not have a free society with out capitalism in some form.

Now you have trapped yourself inside a network of contradictions. If capital overrides all your decisions, how can you consider yourself free? How can a society where only one special groups interests are being heard, call itself free?

No, instead of doubling down on taking ever more people's rights away, we should be doing the opposite. We should be striving to give everyone the ability to help themselves, decide for themselves and to live their lives according to the best of their abilities.

This is where the paths diverge. You are confusing market economies with capitalism, which is merely a perversion of market economies. A free market is inherently anti-capitalist because it values the freedoms of its participants over any special interest groups. A free market inherently denies capital the ability to deny other people the ability to obtain shelter or food. It inherently denies capital the ability to prevent others from trading and forcing them into unemployment.

No, a free market isn't free as in gratis. It's free as in freedom.

Re:Food security and the coming storm by phpisthebest on Monday May 30, 2022 @09:48AM (#31558917)
>>It would be more appropriate to call "capitalism" the obsession to put the interests of capital and its owners above all other interests. This means, capital should be allowed to override the basic needs of other humans. Capital should have the right to deny others the ability to obtain shelter or food.

Completely incorrect, unless you completely perverse the idea of capitalism which I suspect you are attempting with disingenuous argumentation and emotional rhetoric

Capitalism, on its own, does not result in "oppression" as that requires external non-economic factors often based around government for oppression to occur.

Also I am not jealous Jeff Bezoz, Elon Musk, Bill Gates, or any other rich person at all, in either strawman you have presented here

>>If capital overrides all your decisions, how can you consider yourself free? How can a society where only one special groups interests are being heard, call itself free?

I have not contradicted myself at all, you have massively over reached and attributed positions to me well outside that of my comment. Further you have now confused capitalism, an economic system, with government power.

The only way for "only one special groups interests are being heard" would be for government to impose that restriction upon the population, that has nothing to do with capitalism.

>>You are confusing market economies with capitalism

Market economies, including Free Market Economies are part of a capitalist economic system, so if you believe they are not I point you back to my original comment. A Free Market is capitalism, So is Crony Capitalism, but Crony Capitalism is not a Free Market.

Stated Differently, All free markets are capitalist economies, but not all capitalist economies are Free Markets.

I support free market capitalism