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Re:We almost built 8 gigawatt-class floating nuclear power p... by credit_guy on Sunday May 22, 2022 @10:22AM (#31468468)
We could still do this, or something almost equivalent.

This 2011 CBO analysis [1] looked into the feasibility of outfitting US Navy surface ships with nuclear reactors. The US Navy is known for burning more fuel than some small nations. The conclusion of the study was that it's not worth it, but they did not consider CO2 emissions at all.

On page 10 this study implies that the cost of building an A1B nuclear reactor (one of the 2 powering a new Gerald Ford carrier) is about $0.9BN. This cost is classified, so this number is as close as you can get to the real cost. The power generation capacity is also classified, but you can infer it could be about 400 MW. So, that's a cost of about $2.5 BN/ GW.

This cost is not available to everybody, but it certainly is available to the US Navy. It's conceivable the lawyers could find some loopholes to make it available to the Department of Energy as well.

So, if Congress is serious about climate change, they can easily mandate the US Navy and the DoE to order a bunch of A1B power plants, and use them to replace conventional power plants or provide clean electricity. There's simply very little that prevents Congress to do that. The technology is there, there's nothing to innovate. The economics make sense. The safety of the US naval reactors is simply unparalleled. In 70 years of service they did not have a single incident. The manufacturing capacity is there; the US is already making about one such reactor per year, they can increase that to 10 per year in a decade without any issues.

[1] https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/112th-congress-2011-...

Re:We almost built 8 gigawatt-class floating nuclear power p... by gmkiv on Sunday May 22, 2022 @11:52AM (#31469477)
It's not obvious how to translate this figure into a standalone plant cost. The COB study is quoting the acquisition cost premium of a nuclear ship over a non-nuclear ship. I believe that estimate is the premium for taking a non-nuclear design and adding a nuclear reactor to it, so it does not include a lot of plant infrastructure that is part of the cost of civilian power stations. Also I would think the requirements for the containment structure and safety systems would be significantly different.
Re:We almost built 8 gigawatt-class floating nuclear power p... by credit_guy on Sunday May 22, 2022 @12:35PM (#31469996)
Fair enough. Currently each America-class ship [1] uses 2 GE LM2500 turbines [2]. This type of engine has been produced in huge quantities, more than 2000 to date. The unit cost is about $11 MM [3], so it's negligible compared to a naval nuclear reactor.

Where a nuclear reactor comes ahead is the fuel cost. Which is zero (it's included in the construction cost, and there's no refueling for the lifetime of the ship). A conventional turbine burns fuel, and over the lifetime of a ship it can add up to quite a lot. It can certainly get above $1BN.

In fact, the CBO analysis shows that the total cost for 5 such ships would be $14.2 BN using conventional engines, and $14.8 BN using nukes ([4] page 6 top table). That was when the oil price was $86/barrel. Now it's $110, so just because of that the calculus can switch to favor the nukes.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America-class_amphibious_assau...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Electric_LM2500

[3] http://www.fi-powerweb.com/Engine/Industrial/GE-LM2500.html

[4] https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/112th-congress-2011-...

Re:We almost built 8 gigawatt-class floating nuclear power p... by dmajor2 on Sunday May 22, 2022 @11:54AM (#31469496)
One of the first commercial US PWR nuclear reactors was a burred in the ground nuclear powered air craft carrier plant. It was built by the AEC under the direct supervision of the Navy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shippingport_Atomic_Power_Stat...
Re:We almost built 8 gigawatt-class floating nuclear power p... by acidburnNSA on Sunday May 22, 2022 @12:09PM (#31469661)
Indeed. It was originally a prototype for an aircraft carrier engine, but the Navy was waffling on whether or not it needed such things. So Rickover led its development as a commercial demo instead, and it worked better than most of the other more exotic reactor types being tried at the time, and so now we have mostly this kind of reactor in the world (the PWR), and its close relative (the BWR).

Later the Navy decided that they did indeed want nuclear powered aircraft carriers, and so now they have them.

Re:We almost built 8 gigawatt-class floating nuclear power p... by goodpoint on Sunday May 22, 2022 @12:18PM (#31469770)
> The safety of the US naval reactors is simply unparalleled. In 70 years of service they did not have a single incident

And how do we know that for sure, given the army tendency to cover up wrongdoing?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_power_accident...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_disposal_of_radioactive_...

Not to mention the societal risk in having critical civic infrastructure controlled by the military.

Re:We almost built 8 gigawatt-class floating nuclear power p... by acidburnNSA on Sunday May 22, 2022 @12:21PM (#31469815)
Radiation detectors are incredibly sensitive and can detect even a single atom decaying. If there were a major radiological release people around the world would see it.

Two US nuclear submarines have gone down, the Thresher and the Scorpion. Neither was due to the nuclear power plant, and so far they have kept the radiation contained.

Re:We almost built 8 gigawatt-class floating nuclear power p... by goodpoint on Sunday May 22, 2022 @07:37PM (#31473901)
> so far

That says everything.

Re:We almost built 8 gigawatt-class floating nuclear power p... by foxyv on Monday May 23, 2022 @05:56PM (#31485282)
Keep in mind that the favorite method of waste disposal during the early history of nuclear energy was dropping containers into the ocean. This dumping strategy hinged on the dilution of the material in huge quantities of water. The strategy was successful but particularly unpopular.

If the containment on these reactors was lost, the effect would be measurable due to the sensitivity of such detectors, but literally a drop in the bucket of waste disposed of into the ocean.

http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2017/ph241/jones-a2/

Re:We almost built 8 gigawatt-class floating nuclear power p... by pintxo on Monday May 23, 2022 @03:12AM (#31476131)
> having critical civic infrastructure controlled by the military

Hasn't that ship already sailed, with the Army Corps of Engineers being responsible for all dikes in the US?