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Re:The end of Roe will bring about a sea change in the encry... by tialaramex on Wednesday May 18, 2022 @02:43PM (#31426214)
Rather than being merely "unfortunate" because it's different than either of us would prefer the choice of language was very deliberate.

I think it should say "people" or perhaps "persons" but that didn't happen for a different reason that I'm sure you likewise have dogmatic beliefs about.

The Declaration isn't supplied with teeth, but even without them it seems especially nonsensical to insist upon denying facts. Pregnancies are aborted spontaneously all the time, merely "conceiving" a human being means almost nothing.

Re:The end of Roe will bring about a sea change in the encry... by philsnow on Wednesday May 18, 2022 @09:38PM (#31429724)
What "dogmatic beliefs" are you referring to here, that innocent and helpless people deserve our protection? I don't think that's controversial. We're not animals.

I'm well aware pregnancies are commonly spontaneously aborted, but the key word there is spontaneously, "without apparent cause or stimulus", i.e. not through the choice or neglect of the mother.

Re:The end of Roe will bring about a sea change in the encry... by tialaramex on Thursday May 19, 2022 @04:05AM (#31431975)
> What "dogmatic beliefs" are you referring to here [...] We're not animals.

See, you didn't need any help. Given that some were insistent that humans are not animals, and others were insistent that some ethnic or religious groups of humans aren't people, the resolution was to highlight that the latter claim is wrong, and give up on the other claim for the time being.

This means that status of other species (e.g. octopuses) is not recognised in the UDHR. Arguably a realistic setting of priorities, but still unfortunate in my view of course.

> the key word there is spontaneously

So how is your intuition for other spontaneous events? If your child is spontaneously struck down by Influenza, too bad - they live or die and you're not bothered either way? If a work colleague falls down the stairs, and others present just leave them there, a motionless heap, stepping over the body - does that seem right to you?

Re:The end of Roe will bring about a sea change in the encry... by philsnow on Thursday May 19, 2022 @06:04AM (#31432630)
> So how is your intuition for other spontaneous events? If your child is spontaneously struck down by Influenza, too bad - they live or die

yes

> and you're not bothered either way?

of course I'd be bothered. elsewhere in this thread I mentioned grieving the loss of the two miscarriages that my wife and I knew about.

> If a work colleague falls down the stairs, and others present just leave them there, a motionless heap, stepping over the body - does that seem right to you?

Either you or I or both of us have really lost the thread here... I guess the falling down the stairs might be considered spontaneous but the others stepping over him instead of helping him is deliberate and probably reprehensible.