Re:Correctness and composability bugs in the Julia ecosystem
by wnoise on Monday May 16, 2022 @05:50PM
(#31403556)
> often, in human terms, much more natural to start from 1
This meaning of natural is highly cultural dependent. It took the Greeks a startlingly long time to accept that one was a number (because it's a singleton), much less zero. I do not e.g. want arrays that can't have length one, because they have to be containing a number of things.
> No need to build anything new;
Well, no, not "new". Arrays with arbitrary bounds is a well-trod path. But they still had to make it work in Julia: CartesianIndices, LinearIndices, and overloading of "begin", and "end" keywords, etc. And the radical dependence on multimethod dispatch meant they couldn't quite just reuse existing work from other languages.
Re:Correctness and composability bugs in the Julia ecosystem
by CodeArtisan on Monday May 16, 2022 @06:58PM
(#31404073)
Algol had negative indexes. You could declare an array of nine elements going from -4 to 4, for example. I couldn't find why they wanted such a thing.
Which in everyday computing (as opposed to mathematics) they often do, and those cases are (most?) often, in human terms, much more natural to start from 1: "I have an array of N elements. The first of a bunch of things is thing number one, and the last of N things is thing number N." Hence:
Yeah, that's how old I am: That's Pascal. (With some declarations skipped, and I may have misremembered some syntax.) The canonical example is of course the original Wirth-style max-255-ASCII-characters fixed-length[1] String type: In a string of length N, the nth character is at position n in the string. Character number N is the last one.> The one nice side-benefit of Julia's mistake in adopting 1-based indexing is that it provided an extra impetus to build machinery to handle arbitrary indexing
1) Arguably, as per the above, not a mistake.
2) Muahaha, "build machinery"? No need to build anything new; that's already existed since the early 70s. (Yeah, that's how old I am: Not adding 19 in front. There was only one "the seventies".) It's not like starting at 1 was mandatory; you could well declare
And then "for i := 19 to 68 do ..." whatever with it, if those specific numbers happened to be somehow essential to your code.(At least in Turbo, but AFAICR also in original Wirth Pascal. Though probably with the max-255-ASCII-elements limitation in Wirth, and possibly also in Turbo up to v. 2 or 3 or so.)
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[1]: Though from at least Turbo Pascal 3 (probably earlier; also think I saw it on some minicomputer implementation) with the backdoor of changing the length by directly manipulating -- surprise, surprise, it exists! String was a built-in type with its own implementation -- the length bit at index [0]. Better start out with your string declared as length 255, though, so you don't accidentally try to grow it beyond what's allocated.