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Re:Rich Hickey: "Simple Made Easy" from Strange Loop 2011 [v... by agentultra on Friday October 21, 2011 @10:26AM (#3139875)
Big advantage for Clojure over what?

The point I was trying to make about parens is that I think Rich is creating a straw man from them. Parens in CL/Scheme don't have any special meaning other than demarcating lists. A Lisp compiler/interpreter just evaluates lists of symbols at the end of the day.

Re:Rich Hickey: "Simple Made Easy" from Strange Loop 2011 [v... by radarsat1 on Friday October 21, 2011 @11:35AM (#3140208)
His point is that it puts together (complects.. ha!) lists, the data structure, and list-like operations into one and the same thing, when logically they are separate ideas. He's trying to point out that separating things brings simplicity, even if you end up with more of them, therefore unifying everything under one syntax for example is not necessarily "simpler". You may not agree, that's okay, but it's consistent with what he was saying, not a straw-man.
Re:Rich Hickey: "Simple Made Easy" from Strange Loop 2011 [v... by agentultra on Friday October 21, 2011 @12:14PM (#3140437)
That's where I think he is 'discovering' complexity and in fact creating some.

That code and data can both be represented as lists is a major feature of what makes CL so compelling.

And I suppose that is the major contention -- is 'code as data' a complex idea? I say it's simple. There's no difference between the data structure of the code and the data structures the code acts on, so using the same operations on either should be trivial. With a handful of simple evaluation rules and a small number of special forms you can bootstrap an entire language written entirely in itself. Functions, classes, interfaces, namespaces, the whole nine-yards. The list is just an implementation detail and it's a very simple one that enables some very elaborate structures.

Re:Rich Hickey: "Simple Made Easy" from Strange Loop 2011 [v... by swannodette on Friday October 21, 2011 @12:38PM (#3140550)
There's nothing you've expressed that doesn't apply to Clojure as well. I'm assuming you haven't done much Clojure and thus can't really illustrate what the problem is in practice.