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Re:My experience at community college by Melting_Harps on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @08:29PM (#31347773)
> We do need to reduce the stigma of community colleges, they fulfill an important need.

Because of continued budget cuts to the CSU/UC system which resulted in less sections being offered or having those with openings simply conflicting with my core major classes I had the misfortune of having to attend Community College alongside Uni.

I say misfortune not because the of the lack of prestige, I was a junior by that time and had already attended 3 universities due to budget/class shortages so all the luster of the University system had all been washed away a long time ago, and all I wanted was to graduate and try to cope as best I could in the financial crisis job market to pay down all my debt.

But what gave it a stigma, in my onion, were the levels infantile like behaviour everyone was expected to work under, I was shocked to see you had to ask permission to go to the bathroom, and you were penalized for attendance. Grown adults, as in over 30, were complying too. I can only suspect that the workforce had taken it's toll on them and they didn't even question it anymore.

Mind you these were general-ed classes that I honestly didn't care about but had to complete to graduate in 5 years and I was inclined not to pay full University price for them if possible so I stuck it out, but even in my lower division classes at University which were impacted we ever forced to attend class--you're an Adult its your money and it's your fault if you fail after all.

What pushed me over the edge was one day when after working all night at my job, and having a lab practical in the morning I drove 1.5 hour and arrived to the CC campus on time only to find out everyone agreed to go home to watch the World Cup matches... I lost it, and I just saw red!

I knew then I would never have gotten past the first week if I didn't have any agency after these regretful experiences if this was all I had as an option after I finished High School. It felt exactly like High School, but with the added bonus of having to pay out of pocket for it.

By contrast, I took an online class in Spanish and that was fine. I got a B+ and put in minimal effort and I felt I got what I paid for: a letter saying I'm completed the course for under $200.

If we are to broaden the appeal of CC then a digital first approach should be applied, if Coursera can do that with it's affiliated Universities so can Community Colleges. They need to modernize to compete, and the Market will soon be filled with Gen Z that have all been priced out of University so it's a net boon if they do.

Moreover, I have seen the costs of CC, it's still way too expensive for what they offer. I was tempted to go back for a welding certification and try my hand at that but it was 1000s of dollars per class not including material costs! I saw what an Associates degree costs after I met a girl who had to drop out and wait tables, and it's on par with what my first semesters of University cost even as a local in Colorado.

Insanity...

I think the real thing that needs to be addressed is conflating college experience as a good gauge for professional experience in the work place; I'm a much bigger proponent of the Germanic model of apprenticeships, wherein you can opt out of High School to go into a trade and start a career when you're ready.

So many more options are available to you that way, and end up yielding some of the best people I ever worked with. Best of all, you don't waste your time studying something you may never end up working in, as so many do after completing their degrees.

Re:My experience at community college by legerdemain on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @09:25PM (#31348096)
Wow, are there many Germanic children who don't go to high school, in your experience? That's really different.
Re:My experience at community college by coward123 on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @10:11PM (#31348438)
I'm sure there is a German or two here who can chime in with the specifics, but the parent poster shared a somewhat abbreviated version of the story. There are multiple kinds of high school in Germany (and other European nations) whereby you can opt into the right kind of school to fit your talents and needs. So what they likely meant was Gymnasium, which is traditionally viewed as a university bound high school program. Other students will go to other kinds of more hands-on schools that I'd say are no less rigorous or well-rounded, just different.
Re:My experience at community college by Hir0ki on Thursday May 12, 2022 @03:40AM (#31350470)
So I'm going to be the german who is going to chime in.

The german system works like this:

The frist 4 years of education you'll got to Grundschule where you learn the basics.

Then you'll get sorted in the 3 different "high school" types.

- Hauptschule

  - This type of school is the least academically demanding and has a lot more 
    hands on classes like woodworking/cooking and the likes.
  
  - This take usualy 5 years to complete.
- Realschule

  - This is the middle ground school it offers a bit of both worlds

  - this takes 6 years to complete.
- Gymnasium

  - This is the more acadamiclly focus type of school, with stuff like AP 
    classes.

  - have to learn a thrid language 

  - takes 8 or 9 years
But after you complete Hauptschule or Realschule you can go do an apprenticeship or add on some more school years to get the better school diploma.

Appranticeships can be in trades, manufacturing, IT or office jobs. There is also Duales Studium where you go to collage but also work half time at a company.

As an example take my school journy: I was sorted into the Hauptschule.

After I completet that school, I added 2 more years school time so i get a Realschul depolma, as a bonus the school I went to also touth me the frist year of electricians apprenticeship.

After that I got a apprianticeship to become a software developer which took me 3 years to complete.

edit: formating and last paragraph

Re:My experience at community college by ido on Thursday May 12, 2022 @04:21AM (#31350761)
This also differs based on state within Germany.

In Berlin for example the Grundschule is 6 years and then you go to either Gymnasium or Sekundarschule[1] for another 6, which offers either university-bound education or vocational education but generally everyone attending that wants to and is academically capable can get a highschool diploma out of it, allowing them to go to uni.

[1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sekundarschule#Berlin

Re:My experience at community college by rootusrootus on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @10:29PM (#31348582)
We are seeing some of that in the US in the form of charter schools. We have one locally that is focused more on trades and technology, and goes all the way from middle school through high school. Traditionally, you'd go to the regular public school if you were interested in post-secondary education. Not that you couldn't go to college if you went to the charter school, just that isn't the focus. You get an equivalent high school diploma either way.
Re:My experience at community college by mibollma on Thursday May 12, 2022 @01:51AM (#31349758)
I think that sounds a bit more voluntary than it actually is. Some argue its to early to decide after elementary school to decide who will likely study and who won't.
Re:My experience at community college by mantas on Thursday May 12, 2022 @02:17AM (#31349908)
After elementary may be too early. In my country most of selection is at year 9 (pupils being 14-15 y/o). That's not a hard cut off though. Technically you take same exam and may go to university if you want. But if you picked arts school, you probably won't do well in exams needed for STEM at university...

Works pretty well I'd say.

Re:My experience at community college by ido on Thursday May 12, 2022 @04:25AM (#31350795)
This is somewhat out of date as modern day system in Germany is a lot less exclusionary and less prone to railroading pupils to vocational education than it was 20-30 years ago. This also depends on state, in Berlin for example basically any capable/motivated pupil can get an Abitur by attending an Integrierte Sekundarschule.
Re:My experience at community college by prawn on Thursday May 12, 2022 @03:13AM (#31350257)
In Australia, while there are some specialist high schools with a different focus (e.g., agricultural sciences) students can otherwise take on a trade apprenticeship from Year 10 (15ish yo) as part of completing their secondary schooling.