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Re:The ACLU Has Lost Its Way by 8345570934 on Tuesday May 10, 2022 @07:54PM (#31334155)
That's not true at all. The ACLU is suing the Washington Department of Corrections to prevent them from releasing personal information about individuals. They are not on the state's side in this case, it's the state they are suing. They are not objecting to the release of statistics, only information about identifiable individuals.

It's entirely clear that the organisation you are linking to are outright lying when you read the actual complaint: https://www.aclu-wa.org/docs/complaint-does-v-washington-dep...

Allow me to quote the first paragraph:

> Defendant Washington State Department of Corrections (DOC) and its Secretary, Stephen Sinclair, intend to release records to certain “Requestors” that will reveal the identities and highly personal information of transgender, non-binary, and intersex persons currently and formerly in its custody. Such a disclosure will, by purpose and in effect, create a target list of some of the most vulnerable people who are or have been in DOC care. It will deter people from disclosing information that DOC says it needs to keep them safe, it will prevent people from seeking life-saving medical care, and it robs people of their right to fundamental privacy and to live a life consistent with their gender and without the reasonable fear of harassment, discrimination, and assault. The Department’s decision to release these records, in violation of well-settled federal and state law, and despite a number of applicable exemptions to disclosure, will place Plaintiffs and the class they represent at great risk of extreme physical harm and emotional distress, and such harm is irreparable.

Re:The ACLU Has Lost Its Way by dmix on Tuesday May 10, 2022 @08:36PM (#31334481)
How is releasing raw statistics about inmates based on demographics creating "a target list"? I don't see where they are asking for a list of individual identities.

The public records act doesn't include personal information:

> personal student or patient information, employee files, and some investigative records are exempt.

You could silence tons of scientific studies with this sort of broad rejection of data collection simply because you deem a subset of the group 'vulnerable' (including just as many studies that benefit these groups). It could be applied in many other ways beyond state prisons.

Re:The ACLU Has Lost Its Way by 8345570934 on Tuesday May 10, 2022 @09:16PM (#31334756)
Some of the requests are directly for the names and ages of individuals, but the government doesn't have the statistics requested and want to "provide records from which requestors may derive answers to their own questions" for the statistics requests as well. The ACLU is objecting to this to the extent that it would "include highly sensitive information" that identifies individuals. The ACLU is not asking the court to block the government from releasing raw statistics. They want to prevent them from releasing a literal list of transgender and gender non-conforming individuals.

There are also requests for infractions, complaints, reports, etc. If you think this is agienst the law, then you agree with the ACLU.

Re:The ACLU Has Lost Its Way by grasbo on Tuesday May 10, 2022 @08:43PM (#31334508)
WoLF are representing Andrea Kelly. The ACLU's own filing, that you linked to, confirms that she requested only statistical data, not personally-identifying information:

> 4.8 On March 19, 2021, Requestor Andrea Kelly made a public records request to Defendant Washington State Department of Corrections that sought the following records:

> - "The number of transgender individuals currently incarcerated broken out by facility location."

> - "Number of incarcerated individuals who have been transferred from a men's facility to a women's facility since January 1, 2021."

> - "The number of male incarcerated individuals who identify as female, non- binary or any other gender identity who are currently housed at a Women's prison facility."

> - "The number of incarcerated individuals who have transferred from a Women's facility to a Men's facility since January 1, 2021."

> - "The number of female incarcerated individuals who identify as male, non- binary or any other gender identity who are currently housed in a Men's prison facility."

I do wonder if you read past that first paragraph you quoted, because the above section supports the facts of WoLF's article that you erroneously called out as "outright lying".

Re:The ACLU Has Lost Its Way by 8345570934 on Tuesday May 10, 2022 @09:07PM (#31334688)
You neglect to mention the requests for:

> “The names and ages of the transgender or gender non-conformists inmates moved to Purdy and the convictions they are serving time for.”

> “The names of all transgendered incarcerated individuals who have requested, received or are scheduled for gender reassignment surgery.”

However, even with only the requests made by Andrea Kelly, the DOC indented to provide private information about individuals in order to allow the requester to derive answers to their questions, as it doesn't have the statistics requested. This is what ACLU sued to prevent. See:

> 4.20 The Attorney General, on behalf of DOC, has indicated in discussions with DRW that DOC does not create records in response to requests for aggregate numerical information. Instead, the Attorney General explained that DOC will identify as responsive and provide records from which requestors may derive answers to their own questions. DOC has not provided DRW a list of what records have been identified by DOC as responsive to the requests. Based on DRW’s knowledge of DOC records, such records will likely include highly sensitive information about transgender, non-binary, gender non-conforming, and/or intersex inmates and former inmates.

The ACLU never asked the court to stop the government from responding with statistics, but the government doesn't have the statistics requested.

Re:The ACLU Has Lost Its Way by grasbo on Tuesday May 10, 2022 @09:21PM (#31334791)
Do you now concur that WoLF is not lying though?
Re:The ACLU Has Lost Its Way by 8345570934 on Tuesday May 10, 2022 @09:58PM (#31335003)
No, I think they are lying when they say the ACLU is suing to "prevent the public from receiving public records from the Washington State Department of Corrections on the number of inmates in state custody who identify as transgender and the number of male inmates who are housed in women’s facilities" because there are no such records and they are actually suing to prevent the release of people's identities. They are also lying by omission and competently misrepresenting the case by not mentioning what other kind of information was requested and how the government intends to respond to the request for the statistics it doesn't possess.
Re:The ACLU Has Lost Its Way by grasbo on Tuesday May 10, 2022 @10:04PM (#31335050)
How about a more charitable interpretation, rather than accusing people of lying: ACLU's position is that these shouldn't be public records, WoLF's is that the government should release whatever public records are required to fulfil the request.